P0018 - what a disappointment this car has become

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by ls1ac

Ok I am old and I take responsibility for my actions. If I buy a car that is too small for what I want to hall it is not the cars fault. If I buy a car that does not have the power that I want it is not the cars fault. If I modify the cars engine and programing I know that ANY resulting problem is on me. You put the car back to stock so the dealer would not know it had been modified.
You are blaming the car the dealer and the manufacturer for your choices.
I too have a 2013. I drive the car in the summer and do track it and have modified it with no problems so far, but if and when the engine goes bad I will take responsibility.

I never once blamed the dealer or the manufacturer for my choice in purchasing the car. I stated my dislikes and i specifically mentioned that their are far more pros than cons. I even went on to state that I bought a second car and a bike because like many here... I love riding and im obsessed with toys.

Let me get this straight. You wouldnt have a problem spending $6k to repair a part like a bad VVT drum assembly, a cam crank, a cam sensor out of your own pocket for a car so low in miles its still covered under warranty? You would tell yourself "no, I did this with my exhaust" and rule out the possibility that it would have happened to your car regardless of an exhaust system?

Maybe you are new to this car and this website but type in P0018 and volumes of threads will surface. Almost every link will take you to a forum post in which these people are getting screwed over for a widespread, manufacturer defect. For fuck sake, a lot of these problems (such as the cam seal plate) was fixed in later production models because the manufacturer identified it as one that is there fault. You would just throw your hands up for an issue thats their fault because you technically voided your warranty? Thats not being old fashioned.. thats being something else dude

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by Kimsey47

I'm interested to know if your OFT (or any other type of gauge you had available) was providing you some sort of information that your were experiencing knock with the tune you were on? It seems that there would have been signs that could have helped you realize something wasn't right that may lead to failure?

no. Let me be clear again. While I have lost faith in my car long term, My car was and still appears to be running 100%. advanced multiplier rock solid at 1. nice AFR and timing. Nothing was wrong or is wrong with my engine performance. The OFT is a great product and the canned tunes are extremely reliable and safe. Shiv would not be in business of peoples cars starting breaking.

What broke was an assembly of hardware due to extremely poor manufacturing tolerances on Toyota's and Subaru's part. Plain and simple. Their manufacturing was so goddamn poor that even after the tech replaced the assembly once,. the light came back on again! What was wrong? The new part they put on was from an old production and had the manufacturer intolerance in them! The dealer actually told me this.. He literally reinstalled the same parts 2x and now it works.

They were trying to get rid of an older batch of assemblies in hopes that they were constructed correctly but at my expense of time and a car rental. The dealer billed toyota twice for the same installation.

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I'm not saying it's a big issue on stock cars, I'm saying it has proven to be a possible failure point even on stock cars. I think I remember at least two stock cars in those threads. I'm not an expert but a lot of guys who have a lot of experience tuning this car (MRT, AVO, steve99, nelsmar) seem to agree it's not a tune-related issue. I think it's also interesting that someone with a tuned car had the dealership look over his car to fix the issue and the Subaru SM agreed to cover it under warranty. I doubt you'd see that if this was primarily a tune-related issue. .

<-- this!

It wasnt Toyota that I was mad at.. it was the damn dealer who was so quick to tell me no. I lost sleep and had to fight with that piece of shit.

I mean, his first approach was to check the cam sensors and he did that. He called me to say it didnt work but I want you to know that this would not be covered under the warranty. I couldnt believe it because in this TSB bySCion it specifically states in a red fucking box that this is covered under the limited power train warranty.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45844


It was Toyota themselves, the rep, who owned up and said "this is our fault, their was a bad batch of these assemblies, we will cover it". The dealer literally told me this.

Maybe I didnt make that clear enough to all the Goody To-shoes who think I am a monster for still getting it covered under warranty.

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

Things like these scare me off the whole OFT and header route or messing with the engine in general. Some FI kits offer additional warranty and that's worth looking into, otherwise you're in open water. Considering how much money I spent fixing my last car, I don't want to spend anything on this one, which is why I bought it new and with warranty. So I'm hoping the '17 has all these niggles worked out

looking back almost 5 years ago I was a different person I guess. Today I cant see myself modifying any more.. maybe just tires. I have a 15 WRX and its fast but I hate that rev hang.. with a tune you can get it out of there as I understand the rev hang is emissions related but, I rather spend the $600 on a new bike than a tune.

People think I dont like the FRS and I did a good job of ranting my way at that angle. I really do love the car. Its more fun to drive twisties than the WRX... The lower center of gravity, the steering wheel feel, the rear wheel drive..

The FRS, WRX and my SV650 are all Stallions my stable. I love to drive them pending my mood. The FRS is a special one for me.. I will miss it but it has to go .. I cant risk paying for something so stupid like another error code due to know one elses fault than manufacturer tolerances

[mav1178]

All this typing ... if I was told by a dealer that this wasn't covered under warranty, I'd go to the next dealership that was more willing to be reasonable.

You can blame everyone all you want, but if you accept $6000 out of pocket as an acceptable conclusion for your issues then you basically gave up without a fight.

If I were you I would've gone to two or three other dealers to ask for different opinions. At some point the smart dealer will understand that this is a warranty problem and that corporate should pay for it.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

What really sucks is this should have been a 2-4 day fix tops with zero hassle from your dealership.

Just imagine that many Toyota dealers didn't ever have the chance to fix a boxer engine before. This is a reason to buy from Subaru or if possible make your service in Subaru where they have many many years of experience with the boxer engines! I am not saying this to you, but to all the guys which think that Toyota vs. Subaru is just a matter of aesthetics.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I have a car built 12/12, in January of 2015 at ~30k miles I got P0011 at the track on a totally stock car (except tires and brakes).
...
I cleared it, continued my track day and it has not returned in two+ years, another track day since then, and two seasons of autox and I'm over 57k miles with no issue.

Exactly, this is what I am saying. You didn't have a serious issue, because you were stock. If you had an aftermarket tune, then the probability to have a real problem and a broken engine would be much higher. So, you can still enjoy your car and I hope to enjoy it past the 100k mile limit.

I have a reason to write all these. There are many tuners in Japan which are much more conservative than their Western counterparts. I was discussing lately with an engine manufacturer and tuner who is studying our engines for years. What they suggested was to keep it stock! They make an ECU tuning only if they change the internals. Why? Because they prefer to be honest and to avoid issues than to sell more.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

This is a reason to buy from Subaru or if possible make your service in Subaru where they have many many years of experience with the boxer engines! I am not saying this to you, but to all the guys which think that Toyota vs. Subaru is just a matter of aesthetics.

I totally disagree, everything under the hood is nuts and bolts, there is nothing special about the piston orientation that should prevent a certified mechanic from doing a 100% perfect job regardless of if they are employed at a Toyota dealership or a Hyundai dealership, let alone a Subaru dealership.

Factory service manuals are extremely clear and concise, and the vast majority of mechanics working in a dealership have probably worked at multiple dealerships, who's to say your Subaru tech isn't on his first week after working for Toyota for 2 years? Or vice versa?

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Exactly, this is what I am saying. You didn't have a serious issue, because you were stock. If you had an aftermarket tune, then the probability to have a real problem and a broken engine would be much higher. So, you can still enjoy your car and I hope to enjoy it past the 100k mile limit.

I totally disagree with this sentiment, this is an electo-mechanical failure that has almost nothing to do with the ECU tuning or intake/exhaust. In a perfect world I would expect Toyobaru to pick up the tab even if the thing was a supercharged race car.

The point of that section of my post was that this issue has nothing to do with aftermarket modifications. I also do not think this would result in a broken engine, that's like saying a faulty TPMS sensor means your tire is at risk of blowing out.

[Kimsey47]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

no. Let me be clear again. While I have lost faith in my car long term, My car was and still appears to be running 100%. advanced multiplier rock solid at 1. nice AFR and timing. Nothing was wrong or is wrong with my engine performance. The OFT is a great product and the canned tunes are extremely reliable and safe. Shiv would not be in business of peoples cars starting breaking.

What broke was an assembly of hardware due to extremely poor manufacturing tolerances on Toyota's and Subaru's part. Plain and simple. Their manufacturing was so goddamn poor that even after the tech replaced the assembly once,. the light came back on again! What was wrong? The new part they put on was from an old production and had the manufacturer intolerance in them! The dealer actually told me this.. He literally reinstalled the same parts 2x and now it works.

They were trying to get rid of an older batch of assemblies in hopes that they were constructed correctly but at my expense of time and a car rental. The dealer billed toyota twice for the same installation.

No worries... I may have missed it, but when reading up on your post I didn't see if you had been monitoring the engine performance.

And I COMPLETELY understand your issue with the dealer. My local dealer really sucked in helping fix known issues with my BRZ that were minor... I'd probably be ready to slit throats if my car's engine failed and they weren't helpful. Then again, I didn't have a tune, and I can see why Subaru may have issues with that being in play as there is potential for that to cause problems. I can see both sides of the argument there...

[ls1ac]

Let me be clear also, taking responsibility means that you knew you had voided the warranty when you modified the engine. No matter what went wrong of who to blame for the failure its self, you knew you had made changes that were not allowed under warranty.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by ls1ac

Let me be clear also, taking responsibility means that you knew you had voided the warranty when you modified the engine. No matter what went wrong of who to blame for the failure its self, you knew you had made changes that were not allowed under warranty.

Let me be clear also: what he did mod-wise did NOT void the warranty.

[Sapphireho]

So let me get this straight.

You did several modifications to your car, each of which voids the legal warranty contract with the seller.

Your car broke.

Now you want them to honor the contract you broke, not them.

Where I'm from we call you a dishonest person at best.

Sounds like your honesty and integrity are not worth squat. My honesty and integrity are worth way more than $6000.

Time to look in the mirror and decide what kind of person you are, one that would lie and cheat and legally defraud (which is a crime btw), or one that takes responsibility for your own actions.

I am always surprised how many people on this board think it is ok to lie, cheat, and defraud.

Btw, you and people like you are the reason why when an honest person goes to the dealer for warranty repair, they get a lot of shit. The dealer gets so many dishonest people, they have to act that way.

[Sapphireho]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Let me be clear also: what he did mod-wise did NOT void the warranty.

Yes it did.

Not only did it, but he knows that, that is why he took the header back off and re-flashed to stock tune in an attempt to defraud.

[Chronology]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Let me be clear also: what he did mod-wise did NOT void the warranty.

Can you point out in Toyota or Subaru documentation that an ECU/ECM flash or tune would retain your warranty?


My experience - Honda, Toyota, MB, BMW all took away my warranty as soon as a flash was done.

[Sapphireho]

Originally Posted by Chronology

Can you point out in Toyota or Subaru documentation that an ECU/ECM flash or tune would retain your warranty?


My experience - Honda, Toyota, MB, BMW all took away my warranty as soon as a flash was done.

Yes, it voids warranty with every car manufacturer. Everyone, even OP knows this.