3 Way Active without a Subwoofer

[Big Sexy]

Thanks man, appreciate the insight

[ft_sjo]

The JX amps are JL's worst... That's why they're cheap!

Decent amps come up cheap second-hand.

[topnotch]

The Hertz esk 163l fits fine in the stock locations. The 4" mids fit fine because it is a shallow speaker. I had to cut a little of the plastic off with a box cutter to make room for the speaker frame. The tweeter fit fine in the stock location aswell. I shoved it into the stock clips and it held fine. Its a little lop sided but works fine.
At first i ran the components passive with the supplied crossover. It was horrible. No way to tune it at all. Mids and tweets would be too loud and midbass too low or vise versa. I was running it off a hertz hp4. Thats 150 x 4. Two channels to components and two channels pending a sub. Tried bi amping with crossover to mids and tweets and mid bass off amp crossover. Not recommended. Finally gave in and installed a audison sr4. Active is the way to go. The system is different. I am used to regular two way components. I enjoy the system, more musical notes. If I can start over, I might of went with two way components. install and tunning is easier. Also less channels are need.
I have morel tempo 6 and idq 10's in my 06 scion xb and love it.
I have Idq ctx 6.5 components in my highlander. Decent sounding.
FRS has Hertz Audio. Sq is enjoyable.
Bottom line each car sounds different from one another. Each brand has their own way of producing music. They all have thier pros and cons.

[Shankenstein]

Originally Posted by topnotch

The Hertz esk 163l fits fine in the stock locations. The 4" mids fit fine because it is a shallow speaker. I had to cut a little of the plastic off with a box cutter to make room for the speaker frame. The tweeter fit fine in the stock location aswell. I shoved it into the stock clips and it held fine. Its a little lop sided but works fine.
At first i ran the components passive with the supplied crossover. It was horrible. No way to tune it at all. Mids and tweets would be too loud and midbass too low or vise versa. I was running it off a hertz hp4. Thats 150 x 4. Two channels to components and two channels pending a sub. Tried bi amping with crossover to mids and tweets and mid bass off amp crossover. Not recommended. Finally gave in and installed a audison sr4. Active is the way to go. The system is different. I am used to regular two way components. I enjoy the system, more musical notes. If I can start over, I might of went with two way components. install and tunning is easier. Also less channels are need.
I have morel tempo 6 and idq 10's in my 06 scion xb and love it.
I have Idq ctx 6.5 components in my highlander. Decent sounding.
FRS has Hertz Audio. Sq is enjoyable.
Bottom line each car sounds different from one another. Each brand has their own way of producing music. They all have thier pros and cons.

Thanks for the feedback on fitment.

Your xB setup with Morel + ID was a great choice. Morel drivers (especially their high end) have really impressed me. They think outside of the box and deliver a product that looks as good as it sounds. Image Dynamics subs have a huge following in the SQ community (for good reason). Very clean sound, easy installs, reasonable prices. The company has had its ups and downs... but I'm still a fan.

[l0aded]

Originally Posted by stea1thbear

Great advice from everyone, has helped a lot. You're assumptions are mostly correct and I'm leaning towards the HERTZ mostly based on the fact that I can't find a better combination of those speakers in those sizes. My head unit has auto EQ so not too concerned about tuning. I'm looking at amps and leaning towards a JL Audio JX360/2 and a JL Audio JX360/4 to power the HERTZ, they output slightly higher RMS than what the HERTZ speakers are rated for and will only cost me $300 total off amazon for both amps. I hope I'm not overlooking anything that will hinder the HERTZ speakers performance.

What did you end up going with? I'm also looking for a similiar setup using the Hertz HSK 163 or similar. What amp did you choose?

[stea1thbear]

Completely switched it up after further research, the plan now is vifa xt25 tweeters mounted in dash, hybrid audio l6v2 mids in the doors, both powered by a Rockford fosgate p600-4 amp. Waiting four jl stealth box for sub in the trunk. 3 way active with no sub has far too many complications and limitations based on the car without major modification.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[Korbah]

Originally Posted by stea1thbear

Completely switched it up after further research, the plan now is vifa xt25 tweeters mounted in dash, hybrid audio l6v2 mids in the doors, both powered by a Rockford fosgate p600-4 amp. Waiting four jl stealth box for sub in the trunk. 3 way active with no sub has far too many complications and limitations based on the car without major modification

A few questions if you have time:

1. Where are you mounting your amp - it looks to be a class a/b which might mean heat issues under a seat (if you can even fit it there)

2. With regards to your comment that there's too many complications are you referring to the dash position requiring you to mount off axis with windshield reflections thus making driver choice tough?


Personally I'm really interested in putting together a system with 3-way active choosing raw drivers and a small 8-10" stealth sub in the trunk. The key issues in my mind are driver selection and amp placement/size issues as I want to preserve trunk space and keep the spare tyre

[stea1thbear]

Originally Posted by Korbah

A few questions if you have time:

1. Where are you mounting your amp - it looks to be a class a/b which might mean heat issues under a seat (if you can even fit it there)

2. With regards to your comment that there's too many complications are you referring to the dash position requiring you to mount off axis with windshield reflections thus making driver choice tough?


Personally I'm really interested in putting together a system with 3-way active choosing raw drivers and a small 8-10" stealth sub in the trunk. The key issues in my mind are driver selection and amp placement/size issues as I want to preserve trunk space and keep the spare tyre

1. Will be mounting in trunk in place of stock amp, will need to cut some trunk foam out under the mat to get it to fit.

2. The complications I'm referring to for not going only 3 way active up front are getting a 6.5 to 7 inch woofer in the door panel that can play nicely from 20hz to 2500hz and that fits in under 3 inches of mounting depth. I couldn't find anything that fits those specs, and even if I did my understanding is there would be significant door vibration\rattling.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[Korbah]

Originally Posted by stea1thbear

1. Will be mounting in trunk in place of stock amp, will need to cut some trunk foam out under the mat to get it to fit.

2. The complications I'm referring to for not going only 3 way active up front are getting a 6.5 to 7 inch woofer in the door panel that can play nicely from 20hz to 2500hz and that fits in under 3 inches of mounting depth. I couldn't find anything that fits those specs, and even if I did my understanding is there would be significant door vibration\rattling.

1. Ok no probs - do you know the dimensions of the stock amp. We don't have one in the australian models gt86/brz - all runs off HU.

2. Not surprised at your difficulty finding a woofer with that range and I think a subwoofer is going to be a lot more successful going down to 20hz. If you did get lucky there'd be some role in deadening the door with MLV and baffles to decouple the driver to mitigate the vibrations.


Given that you're going the sub option anyway - any reason why you're not considering 3-way still?

[cruzinbill]

Originally Posted by Korbah

1. Ok no probs - do you know the dimensions of the stock amp. We don't have one in the australian models gt86/brz - all runs off HU.

2. Not surprised at your difficulty finding a woofer with that range and I think a subwoofer is going to be a lot more successful going down to 20hz. If you did get lucky there'd be some role in deadening the door with MLV and baffles to decouple the driver to mitigate the vibrations.


Given that you're going the sub option anyway - any reason why you're not considering 3-way still?

Its really not worth the cost difference to 95% of the people on here. You can set up a 2 way comp set to sound excellent, and actively with processing to sound amazing.

So for most, the part of the budget spent on a 3way could have been spent on a better overall configuration of the system.

[Shankenstein]

Originally Posted by Korbah

A few questions if you have time:

1. Where are you mounting your amp - it looks to be a class a/b which might mean heat issues under a seat (if you can even fit it there)

2. With regards to your comment that there's too many complications are you referring to the dash position requiring you to mount off axis with windshield reflections thus making driver choice tough?


Personally I'm really interested in putting together a system with 3-way active choosing raw drivers and a small 8-10" stealth sub in the trunk. The key issues in my mind are driver selection and amp placement/size issues as I want to preserve trunk space and keep the spare tyre

1) Modest sized amps will stay cool enough under the seat. I've run them in previous cars like that. Just make sure you fuse them and do a few test runs to make sure temps stabilize at a safe level.

2) In the stock locations, getting a directional tweeter to sound good will be difficult. I'd stick with a textile dome tweeter, neo motor. Traditional is not a bad thing, when you're using it in the traditional manner. If you're going to be this far off-axis, it's usually good to choose a tweeter that accentuates the 10-20k range. I'd go with something like the Seas Prestige 27TFFNC/G or Tang Band 25-1719S. Do some digging on Zaph Audio to find one that fit your needs perfectly.

[zohare]

Ok so sort of OT, bash me and redirect if you will. I have spend a few hours searching this forum and using google to search this forum to no avail. I'm pretty much retarded when it comes to audio. I did my own sub install, and I can do speakers and HU stuff that's pretty basic, but I'm a bit confused.

I want to run a 4.1 CH amp. From what I can tell with the stock amp, it only uses 4 channels... where does it split to the front "six" speakers. Obviously the HU has control with "DSP" (<if you could even call it that...) as to which speaker sound goes to. So to wire in a 4 Channel amp, it would simply replace the factory amp, only using a better power source (lines run from my amp/sub that were stolen), and RCA in for the sub channel. The other four would only be power from the amp to the speakers right? or is there signal going TO the stock amp. (that would then be converted to RCA IN to the amp, then wired OUT) Am I getting this at all right? Or would replacing the same out puts as the factory amp just power like the door speakers or something? I read the wiring diagram but it's not totally clear to me still...

[stea1thbear]

So after all that research I finally got my system installed this week! Parts listed below. Head unit is running 3-way Active in Network Mode, the subs are installed in the doors, sound deadened using Second Skin Damplifier Pro and Luxury Liner Pro (Very Heavy) installed in the doors as well. Full range and tweeters in stock FR-S dash locations. Impressions for others looking for a similar setup: The lows are clean, super punchy and do not muddy the overall sound. No vibration issues. The mids are clear and I can hear the subtle details in my music that I can hear when using a pair of studio headphones. The highs are subtle and non fatiguing. For tuning I ran the Auto EQ and Auto time alignment using the supplied mic on the Pioneer 80PRS head unit, the only adjustment I needed to make was on the time alignment to move the sound more to the left so it is directly in front of me, the auto time alignment put the sound a little to my right. Something to note, the Auto EQ and Auto time alignment automatically adjusts all the crossovers, slopes and levels for all channels, the result sounded great and I have yet to change it.

Parts List:

HD-6MSUB - CDT Audio 6.5" Cast Sub Drivers Subwoofers, installed in each door.
https://www.woofersetc.com/p-10089-h...b-drivers.aspx
http://www.513electronics.com/wp-con...3/HD-6MPdf.pdf
80 Watts RMS at 4 ohm
Mounting Width: 6.75 inches
Mounting Depth: 2.75 inches
Frequency Response: 38 - 1000 Hz


Fountek FR89EX Full Range
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=296-721
Power Handling (RMS) 25 Watts
Power Handling (max) 50 Watts
Impedance 8 ohms , so can handle about 50 Watts RMS at 4 ohm
Overall Outside Diameter 3.48"
Baffle Cutout Diameter 2.87 inches
Mounting Depth 1.68 inches
Frequency Response 70 to 20,000 Hz


1 " tweeter powered by Head Unit
Vifa OX20SC00-04 3/4" Fabric Dome Tweeter, no faceplate, low RMS for head unit
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...umber=264-1002
Mounting Width: 1.3 inch
Mounting Depth: 0.9 inch
20 Watts RMS at 4 ohm
Frequency response: 1,060-38,000 Hz


Amp 4 Channel
JL-Audio-XD400
75 Watts RMS per channel
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/JL-Audio-XD400-Full-Range-Amplifier/dp/B0039AQVEM"]Amazon.com: JL Audio XD400/4: 4 Channel Class D Full-Range Amplifier 400 Watts: Car Electronics[/ame]

[Zippy]

Good to hear! I know you did a lot of research so I'm glad you are happy with the end results. Do you have any pics to share?