Owning S2000 and 86

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by MisterSheep

I've driven both because I was looking into many cars before I bought the FR-S. Prefer the FR-S.. Even though I sound like a broken record but the s2000 was wayy too small for me and I just don't like convertibles and thats just my preferance. The s2000 is a marvelous car and can do the same things (if not more stock) as the fr-s. I run canyon runs with a buddy of mine who has his s2000 and we do fairly the same. Even though I seem to have gotten him on a straight line from a stop.... which I don't understand... lol maybe he wasn't giving it his all and/or I got the better jump.. Anyways just drive one. I prefer to have only one car, and I'm already set on the next car I would get as a family/DD car... a 2000 sti wagon.

Agree about the s2000 and love that wagon !

[BRZZZZZZZZZZ]

I went from BRZ to BRZ+S/C Miata to S/C BRZ to S/C BRZ+NA Miata, to NA Miata and S2000 and finally settled on the S2000. The NA Miata was best for around town livability, fuel economy, fun, the BRZ was fun but expensive and stiff and hard to open it up without getting in trouble, the S2000 is pretty annoying in everyday traffic and the lack of torque makes it feel ho hum, but it is my favorite car to drive hard. I tried my hardest not to daily drive any of them but I enjoyed the NA Miata the most when I had to drive it around. Light and zippy and not a huge amount of power but enough torque.

[fitcious]

I am considering an S2k as well when my lease is up. The S2k is a great car and delivers more power than our 86...but i prefer the look of the 86 more. I also think the 86 might be more safe due to it being newer and more airbags and such... i guess i'll decide when the time comes. but man, if i can have both, i would...

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by yuqian7718

I got s2k before, with heavy modified, 400hp with turbo, lots of work on that one, really fast and fun anywhere, but now I got a 2014 n/a brz with light modified, maybe I want to keep this one more stock, when u drive them, there is no big different between them, s2k got more power, the handling is almost the same, but u still can keep them both, I like them[/ATTACH]

I own an AP2 and have driven both BRZ and FR-S several times, and I disagree with this completely. They feel quite different. S2K has much more power in the upper RPMs and handles very differently due to the short wheelbase, double wishbone suspension, and front-mid engine placement. It rotates a lot faster... feels more nimble but also twitchy and easy to spin. The FR-S feels like other front-engine RWD coupes before it... more front-biased, easy to oversteer, but also easier to control while oversteering... Its handling prowess is technically not as great, but it all might balance out due to being easier to push hard.

It's the engine placement/weight balance that makes the biggest difference, IMO. It's really easy to tell the difference in the "pivot point" as the car rotates... it feels much more centered and quick in the S2k.

[funwheeldrive]

I originally planned on buying a s2000, but I really liked the idea of a fixed top 2+2. I couldn't see myself selling my FRS for a s2000 because I don't track my car enough to exploit the weaknesses of this platform.

What about a slightly used Cayman S though? It seems like the perfect car to upgrade to. Can these cars take a beating at the track without turning into money pits?

[Re_Invention]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I originally planned on buying a s2000, but I really liked the idea of a fixed top 2+2. I couldn't see myself selling my FRS for a s2000 because I don't track my car enough to exploit the weaknesses of this platform.

What about a slightly used Cayman S though? It seems like the perfect car to upgrade to. Can these cars take a beating at the track without turning into money pits?

What a gorgeous shape...

Time to be blunt: to get a verifiable answer take the question to rennlist or find some spec boxster forums and read through typical annual costs. Logically speaking the economics of scale match up pretty well between any 'sports' car and accelerated wear, not accounting for fail-lethal components (i.e. Porsche IMS/RMS, S2k & Z06 valve springs/retainers, etc.). That's why Miata's run cheap and 911's run expensive, right?

Consider the running gear and consumables are very similar if not identical between a Cayman and respective year 911 and there's your answer.

What I can assume: tires, brake pads, brake rotors, fluids and physical piece that might break will cost more on the P-car than an FRS, Miata, S2000, Corvette, etc. There's probably a nice chart or graphic out there somewhere showing the deltas between Cost New, Cost to Maintain, and Lap Times. I'm sure some sort of rough corresponding relationship exist between the three.

Without stating how often you are tracking, or how many mistakes you plan to have at the track, and how many miles you plan to drive outside the track - it's hard to work out an estimate, so I'm sticking with the general statements.

This is just an example of an exercise I've done for myself: do not take this to the bank! Acquisition cost, anticipated workshop costs (there's a big difference between 10 hours and 20 hours of your car at a Porsche shop), OCD level, driving level, etc.

Story time...

For years I've been eye-balling a 996 911 for double-duty and conclude at a budget of $1,500 per year for deferred maintenance/repairs/reserves/incidents/etc. to drive as a Sunday driver (no modifications) at approximately 7,500 miles per year after initial investment and typical service outlay which is dependent upon car with doing a healthy chunk of the labor myself - I can't recall exactly but I believe that's factoring in 6 hours of labor at a Porsche shop per year. Tracking it thrice per year on top, I doubled that to $3,000 or $500 per event for excess. Increase the volume of events then I would consider $600-700 per event prudent to account for 'uh ohs' that a more likely to occur occur with the increased risk exposure. Off's happen, stupid moments happen; mis shifts, bad braking, high curbs, suspension beatings, etc.

Note: this does not include any preventative 'upgrades' or performance maintenance that is part of the fun in modding stuff for the track. Many times they'll begin to compound over time, you'll notice the weak points and want to address them to prevent greater financial penalties later i.e. front brake cooling ducts, larger differential, harness bar/harness, etc. Those costs would be factored per event as they go above and beyond the Sunday driving. This can be over, under or net-netural to the $500+ per event cost I mentioned above. That will amortize over time with the car, lack of uh ohs, and increased volume of events.

Ultimately I recall it boiling down to about $825 per event all inclusive sans track insurance in my calcs to run an '99 911 with a few mods (additional oil cooler, baffled pan, etc.) about once a quarter (4x) with 2-3x autocross events for about 3 years. Then throw on top the $1,500 baseline maintenance, annual track fee costs ~($1,000+), fuel (~$1,500+), vehicle insurance (~$800) & registration (~$100) totals about $8,200 annual to have a double-duty toy NOT including depreciation - which on a 16 year old 911 is minimal at this point. At 7,500 miles we're at an appropriate $1.09 per mile base line. I imagine a 15% swing up and down from $1.00 per mile is reasonable for a sports car that you work on yourself and has volume parts/tires available. Something like a Ferrari ought to cost ~$2.50+/mile and a Miata ought to cost $.50/mile in the scenario described.

When you factor in depreciation, because a lightly used Cayman has a big hit to take, like... $3,200 per year without the on-track acceleration premium on top of that! So anywhere between $0.30 to $0.45 per mile penalty on top and there ya have it. I would expect most newer six figure toys to be around $1.50/mile to run as intended and something like the FRS around $0.60-65 per mile. And we can get more complicated by considering sinking fund factors and time value adjustments...

Keep in mind this is just a rough snapshot in time for a slightly used Cayman being driven hard and maintained as intended with a novice behind the wheel and in the engine bay (no offense).

Your ability/costs/preferences may vary

All said and told this business of sports cars and driving fast is an absurdly expensive hobby.

[cyde01]

Owned a MY'05 for 2 or 3 years. As a summer car, it's perfect. The only problem is I can't afford having a summer only car, so I sold it and haven't looked back. It made me realize I need a back seat and at least a smidge of trunk space, and a fixed roof! That F20/F22 tho, my gawd.

[CSG Mike]

I know some fast GTR guys that have a running cost of 2500-3000 per day...