Everyone Is Wrong About Subaru BRZ And Scion FR-S Sales

[Flo]

Pulling stuff from my ass: It seems they will continue to make them but no major upgrades next model year?

This is actually somewhat comforting to me as I don't want to go buy one and then the 2015 model is all bad ass.

The lack of info on the 2015 is a little concerning though.

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by Flo

Pulling stuff from my ass: It seems they will continue to make them but no major upgrades next model year?

This is actually somewhat comforting to me as I don't want to go buy one and then the 2015 model is all bad ass.

The lack of info on the 2015 is a little concerning though.

Rest assure, it doesn't seem Toyota or Subaru is going to Turbo Charge it this Generation. They may Bore or Stroke it out to 2.5, but I highly Doubt that.

Just because that change the Displacement of the car 86x86 mm, if they bore it out.

More likely you will see upgrade to the suspensions, tires, and being more expensive

[unvevo]

Its crazy that subaru wont offer a turbo version after building turbo cars for so many years.

[Ozzman]

Dude, the car is only 2 years old, chill the fuck out.

[Sarlacc]

Toyota sales figures for the European market in 2013:
http://newsroom.toyota.eu/pressrelea...-europe-market

Table 1 – TME (3) total sales in 2013
TOTAL TOYOTA/LEXUS

847,540

TOYOTA

804,259

AYGO

64,946

Yaris (incl. Yaris Hybrid)

175,809

Yaris Hybrid

49,774

Auris (incl. Auris Hybrid)

106,510

Auris Hybrid

39,348

Auris Touring Sports (incl. Auris Touring Sports Hybrid)

25,418

Auris Touring Sports Hybrid

15,175

Corolla

67,987

Verso

39,320

Avensis

37,546

iQ

5,337

Urban Cruiser

1,255

Verso-S

8,986

Prius Family

28,466

Prius

13,009

Prius+

10,866

Prius Plug-in Hybrid

4,591

Camry

38,953

GT86

6,323

RAV4

95,168

Venza

5,175

Highlander

9,113

Land Cruiser

49,068

Hilux

33,563

Proace

2,250

Hiace

930

Other models

2,136

LEXUS

43,281

CT 200h

9,406

IS (incl. IS hybrid)

7,562

IS hybrid

5,984

ES (incl. ES hybrid)

2,673

ES hybrid

168

GS (incl. GS hybrid)

3,714

GS hybrid

1,412

LS (incl. LS hybrid)

952

LS hybrid

452

RX (incl. RX hybrid)

13,501

RX hybrid

6,585

Other models

5,473

It is my impression that customers in Europe are still waiting several months from contract to delivery of the GT86 (like I did), so if the sales figures are lower than expected it may partially be due to logistics and/or priorities.

See also http://left-lane.com/european-car-sa...ru/subaru-brz/

[regal]

No one knows the real reason Toyota (not Subaru) made this public announcement that sales are off target. But where there is smoke there is fire. I strongly disagree with comparing our cars with a Miata. The only thing they have in common is they are both good at autocross and that counts for a small fraction of sales.


My speculation is the turbo gen coupe is killing both the GT86/BRZ/FRS is sales and profit.


The problem with the GT-86 platform is it is a one off. It was built from scratch ground up new chassis. This takes a tremendous amount of sales momentum to pay back the capital investment. This all has to be paid back before the platform is in the "green" and true improvements can be made. I hope they pull things off and give an engine without the flat torque dip. But the odds of sales increasing with the FA20 are slim as buying the car is no longer making the owner the only one in town. The informed consumer knows about the engines performance.


Its still a great car. As an owner the worst thing that could happen would be a quick death. This engine is unlikely to be used in anything else and an early death will make a replacement engine or other parts expensive years later when we need them.

[tahdizzle]

the fa20 is used in the forester and the new wrx, granted in turbo form

[DoomsdayJesus]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

the fa20 is used in the forester and the new wrx, granted in turbo form

you shut your dirty trolling mouth

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by regal

No one knows the real reason Toyota (not Subaru) made this public announcement that sales are off target. But where there is smoke there is fire. I strongly disagree with comparing our cars with a Miata. The only thing they have in common is they are both good at autocross and that counts for a small fraction of sales.


My speculation is the turbo gen coupe is killing both the GT86/BRZ/FRS is sales and profit.


The problem with the GT-86 platform is it is a one off. It was built from scratch ground up new chassis. This takes a tremendous amount of sales momentum to pay back the capital investment. This all has to be paid back before the platform is in the "green" and true improvements can be made. I hope they pull things off and give an engine without the flat torque dip. But the odds of sales increasing with the FA20 are slim as buying the car is no longer making the owner the only one in town. The informed consumer knows about the engines performance.


Its still a great car. As an owner the worst thing that could happen would be a quick death. This engine is unlikely to be used in anything else and an early death will make a replacement engine or other parts expensive years later when we need them.

Oddly, I feel like I see probably 60/40 split for the GC vs the Twins...
Not bad, given the GC is a couple years older (and bigger/more practical/cheaper)

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by regal

This engine is unlikely to be used in anything else and an early death will make a replacement engine or other parts expensive years later when we need them.

I can cope with the rest of your post but this is just silly.

If I had to pick one thing from this car to bet on standing the test of time it's the FA20 block. Subaru has already put it in two of their best selling models and I remember intentions of using it across their entire lineup.

Of course you're going to talk about D4-S, which is a Toyota technology that has been in development for over 15 years. Sure it may not survive a refresh, whup-de-doo, all technology is transitional.
http://wardsauto.com/news-amp-analys...-coming-masses

Maybe that power bump everyone craves for will come with true Direct Injection, and part of your statement will come true as the D4S is abandoned leaving early model owners a little bit out in the cold but to condemn the whole engine is foolish.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by regal

No one knows the real reason Toyota (not Subaru) made this public announcement that sales are off target. But where there is smoke there is fire. I strongly disagree with comparing our cars with a Miata. The only thing they have in common is they are both good at autocross and that counts for a small fraction of sales.


My speculation is the turbo gen coupe is killing both the GT86/BRZ/FRS is sales and profit.


The problem with the GT-86 platform is it is a one off. It was built from scratch ground up new chassis. This takes a tremendous amount of sales momentum to pay back the capital investment. This all has to be paid back before the platform is in the "green" and true improvements can be made. I hope they pull things off and give an engine without the flat torque dip. But the odds of sales increasing with the FA20 are slim as buying the car is no longer making the owner the only one in town. The informed consumer knows about the engines performance.


Its still a great car. As an owner the worst thing that could happen would be a quick death. This engine is unlikely to be used in anything else and an early death will make a replacement engine or other parts expensive years later when we need them.

The whole Genesis line (sedan included) sold less than the twins last year in the US. Yes, that is the 2.0T and V6 coupe AND the v6 and V8 sedan COMBINED.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...gures.html?m=1

They were targeting 50k (20k sedan, 30k coupe) sales per year when it was released. So, that split means that they moved around 18k coupes last year among the V6 and I4. So, year, the twins are far outselling the turbo 4 Gen Coupe.

The twins absolutely are Miata competitors. I was inches from taking home an 06 Miata sport. My wife said that knowing the twins were coming out, it made more sense to wait and see what it offered. It gives me all the Miata goodness (light, great chassis) without the drawbacks (drop top, 2 seater). It is a Miata that can carry kids in a pinch... which is perfect because we had my daughter 2 years after passing on the Miata.

[Grassroots_BRZ]

They need to give this car a longer trial. I know Toyota hasn't met their ideal target yet but it hasn't been long enough and there hasn't been too much promoting of this car.

I feel like Toyota (and Subaru, if they do so, too) are doing a great disservice and missing out on an entire market by giving up before they put more effort into it.

[regal]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I can cope with the rest of your post but this is just silly.

If I had to pick one thing from this car to bet on standing the test of time it's the FA20 block. Subaru has already put it in two of their best selling models and I remember intentions of using it across their entire lineup.

Of course you're going to talk about D4-S, which is a Toyota technology that has been in development for over 15 years. Sure it may not survive a refresh, whup-de-doo, all technology is transitional.
http://wardsauto.com/news-amp-analys...-coming-masses

Maybe that power bump everyone craves for will come with true Direct Injection, and part of your statement will come true as the D4S is abandoned leaving early model owners a little bit out in the cold but to condemn the whole engine is foolish.

I don't think the block is even common to the FA20T, the AWD means the starter is in a different location and obviously the pistons are different. The heads are different. I think just the crank and rods are the same.


This engine is a one-off. Low sales and not just the engine but a lot of parts will be expensive.


That's why I hope they keep selling 100k+ per years. Hell I hope it becomes the next EG civic where parts are dirt cheap.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by regal

I don't think the block is even common to the FA20T, the AWD means the starter is in a different location and obviously the pistons are different. The heads are different. I think just the crank and rods are the same.


This engine is a one-off. Low sales and not just the engine but a lot of parts will be expensive.


That's why I hope they keep selling 100k+ per years. Hell I hope it becomes the next EG civic where parts are dirt cheap.

The starter in the EJ255 in my old OBXT and the starter in my BRZ are in roughly the same place. Besides, the starter on our cars is bolted to the transmission. No block change needed.
The above italicized text is wrong. I was cleaning my engine bay earlier this week and saw that the starter is on the exact OPPOSITE side where it would be on an EJ motor.

An engine block is just the block; no pistons, no heads, not even a crank. Just the block. The engine isn't a one off.