Power is relative, and (mostly) over emphasized

[Bristecom]

Well I, and I know many others on this forum, do not want infinite power. I don't like really fast/powerful cars for the road. For a 2700 lb RWD car, I probably wouldn't want more than 230 hp and 185 lb-ft of torque. But more importantly, it's how the power delivery comes in. If the torque band is flat, then it's perfect - the same amount of power on tap at all times = very predictable. Also, the feeling of being pushed back into the seat when going full throttle = fun.

[Demandred7]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

Well I, and I know many others on this forum, do not want infinite power. I don't like really fast/powerful cars for the road. For a 2700 lb RWD car, I probably wouldn't want more than 230 hp and 185 lb-ft of torque. But more importantly, it's how the power delivery comes in. If the torque band is flat, then it's perfect - the same amount of power on tap at all times = very predictable. Also, the feeling of being pushed back into the seat when going full throttle = fun.

I would be totally onboard with your hypothetical FR-S. I think that would provide that little bit extra that a lot of people feel is missing.

I agree with you on the infinite power. While I am sure it could be fun, I don't want to feel like I am making the jump to light speed, it would probably end up being more scary than useable. I prefer my cars to be tossable and not cars that seem like some sort of psychopathic axe murderer that will just as easily kill you as anybody in his path.

[Braces]

This topic has come up so many times. Generally most owners say that the car has adequate power that keeps the MPG high, keeps most of us out of the ditch, and allows some lively controlled drifting around corners. But these same owners are also saying that the car would be a "little bit" better if it just had a "little bit" more horsepower and torque. Just a "little bit".

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by red_comet

Guess what car Randy Pobst is talking about below...

"It handles so well that it feels underpowered. I find myself wanting more horsepower. I want to bolt a turbo on this thing or something. No, I do not want a turbo, because I love the direct throttle response of a naturally aspirated engine."

Here's a hint- it's the Porsche Cayman S.

Of course, Pobst has said nearly the same thing about the FR-S and the Mazda Rx-8 in videos I've seen on the yourtuba.

My question is this: If a(n) (expensive) car with a million horsepower can feel "underpowered" by the magnificence of it's own chassis, then what amount of power is enough?

The Cayman S doesn't have a million horsepower. If Randy was talking about a Huayra or Ferrari Enzo in that quote, you might have a point, but the Cayman S isn't exactly in super-exotic territory, and there are a number of more powerful cars that can be had for less than $35k.

(For what it's worth, I think it's a shame that Porsche doesn't give the Cayman the 3.8L 400HP N/A engine out of the 911 Carrera S, so I agree with Randy on this point)

[red_comet]

Originally Posted by chrisl

The Cayman S doesn't have a million horsepower. If Randy was talking about a Huayra or Ferrari Enzo in that quote, you might have a point, but the Cayman S isn't exactly in super-exotic territory, and there are a number of more powerful cars that can be had for less than $35k.

(For what it's worth, I think it's a shame that Porsche doesn't give the Cayman the 3.8L 400HP N/A engine out of the 911 Carrera S, so I agree with Randy on this point)

Hyperbole, bro

[red_comet]

Originally Posted by Braces

This topic has come up so many times. Generally most owners say that the car has adequate power that keeps the MPG high, keeps most of us out of the ditch, and allows some lively controlled drifting around corners. But these same owners are also saying that the car would be a "little bit" better if it just had a "little bit" more horsepower and torque. Just a "little bit".

I don't count myself as one of those "little bitters"

EDIT....

that is a good point, though.

[ftc~brz]

Originally Posted by red_comet

I have nothing but two lane roads by me. I downshift.

EDIT...

To be fair, I live in a place where most drivers aren't a$$holes who accelerate when you try to pass them.

looks like I need to move there.

[red_comet]

Originally Posted by ftc~brz

looks like I need to move there.

I used to live in long island NY aka "land that god forgot", for 22 years. Wouldn't go back if someone paid me to.

[ftc~brz]

Originally Posted by red_comet

I used to live in long island NY aka "land that god forgot", for 22 years. Wouldn't go back if someone paid me to.

I feel that way about CT. (central western not upper NYC) I hated it growing up. left, moved back, and left again for good.

The drivers here in md are pretty bad though. I need more hp to get away from them

[continuecrushing]

The only pass I've made on a two lane road is cause there was a car broken down on the side...seriously though, I love the car but passing power just isn't there when you need it sometimes.

Sure you can pass another car if they're going slow and you can see 5 miles ahead, but sometimes I wanna pass someone but I only have 3/4 or a mile clear view...and two cars heading at each other going 60+ doesn't give a whole lot of time to overtake the car ahead of you safely.

[Steve]

I enjoy the fact you can wring out the engine and do not have to be worried about losing your license or your gas money.

[TylerLieberman]

It's underpowered. Regardless of what people say and how much some refuse to admit it, it really is. Some people will always want more power. It's the way it is. To which I say, they bought the wrong car (or looking at the wrong car). If power is a priority, these cars disappoint.

However, there is a difference between straight up slow and being underpowered. The car isn't really slow but isn't fast. It's realistic. It's usable. It's simple and it's refreshing, but the car could still benefit from more. Especially when you consider some of the competition.

I used to think the car really needed some sort of forced induction for an extra 50 or so hp from the factory. I felt like hat after driving them and even after owning one for a couple months. But after time on the track, I realized it doesn't need that at. The biggest killer of the car is the torque dip. Everybody will say that if you drive properly, then you can stay out of the dip and in the power band. On the track, sure but on the street.... I don't feel like having to downshift two gears and redline every time I want to get somewhere with a sense of urgency. Having that additional 40lb tq in the mid range has to just make this car 100x better. Not to mention the gains achieved with the parts & tune. I can only imagine how awesome the car is with the different final drive people are starting to swap in.

Lose the torque dip and get an extra 30 hp out of the car while staying n/a and I think the car is much more appealing as an overall package.

[GTB/ZR-1]

I subcribe to Mark Donohue's view of too much power:



When the Porsche 917 engineers asked Mark Donohue if their 800hp motor finally had enough power. His answer was "No. It will never have enough power until I can spin the wheels at the end of the straightaway in high gear" lol

[Leonardo]

If my car had more power, it would be harder for me to NOT get a speeding ticket. My last car had 300hp and 315tq, I do miss the instant torque. But, I don't miss getting 17mpg.