Rumor: BRZ to have more power than FT86....

[Impey Barbicane]

Pure, unadulterated fabrication meant to generate web site hits.

I would put good money on this: The Subaru and Toyota versions will be mechanically IDENTICAL at launch. I'm not confident enough to extend that to two years out, but at least initially the choice between the two will come down to brand preference, cosmetics, and interior appointments.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Leeky

Another 1k on the redline would make a huge power difference.

By itself 1k extra redline won't give you anything. The power band will already be dropping off before redline so extending that redline will just make it fall flat on it's face. Increasing redline without touching anything else is good for allowing upshifts to land you in the powerband right away but it's not good for more power without different internals and freeing flowing manifolds and possibly headwork depending on how well the heads flow.

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I believe they are talking about a high revving 2.5l. It makes sense to have a different engine for the two models.

Possible but even harder to make a high revving 2.5L then the 2L probably. They could put in new cams, pistons, rods and crank if needed, etc rev it higher and make power.. whether or not it keeps fuel efficiency.. :shrug: :P

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Pics of the tac on the VLN shows a redline of 7800rpms. Tac topped out at 9k rpms though.

Which pic? I thought it was 7300-7400?

Originally Posted by fred_boosted

I guess subie will have STi version of this thing...

30K - 2.0L tubro charged! 280~300 bhp

Subaru said they'd have an STI version more or less a LONG time ago. They've also said it will never be turbocharged repeatedly. Give up on that hope already, you'll just have to turbo it yourself.

I'd guess an STI version will be three years out. I'd be shocked if they did it in less considering the reasoning they gave for adding a higher performance version later was the extensive research and development money and time put into this project so the platform will have a long life. So I'd suspect continued development of the platform with minor changes here and there and major changes (performance versions, bumper/headlight/etc changes) after 3 years or so.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Impey Barbicane

Pure, unadulterated fabrication meant to generate web site hits.

I would put good money on this: The Subaru and Toyota versions will be mechanically IDENTICAL at launch. I'm not confident enough to extend that to two years out, but at least initially the choice between the two will come down to brand preference, cosmetics, and interior appointments.

Oh and I agree with this.

[n2oinferno]

I'd also bet that they'll be identical at launch. Maybe in the future they'll up the power for higher trim models, but I can't see it happening for at least a couple years.

[82mm 4g63]

The Toyota/Subaru/Yamaha trio would have to treat this engine like a motorcycle engine if they wanted to see near 300hp out of a 2.0L NA. Shave some weight off of the rotating assembly, balance and blueprint the block and rotating assembly, let it breath easier (maybe ITBs?), and add 2-2500 RPM to the redline.

If they can get 270whp out of a 1.6L Hayabusa engine, I'm confident Toyota/Subuar/Yamaha could get that out of a 2.0L Boxer engine. BUT I don't see them taking it to that extreme to save on some displacement. 2.5L seems more realistic, but a super high string 2.0L would be pretty damn cool.

Originally Posted by Leeky

Yeah i can see as much as 20-30bhp on a different ECU (Assuming the Toyota ECU is very restricted) but no more.

'less than 300bhp' is such a stupid thing for them to say. 1bhp is less than 300bhp!

Unless........ a boxer engine in theory should be able to rev higher than a I4 as it has an overall more balanced rotating assembly.... so why is it the FT86 shown at the VLN only had a 7400rpm redline compared to an S2000's 9k limit? What is stopping this engine from revving!?

Could it be that Toyota have restricted the redline to keep the power down on the entry level car to then be able to release a more powerful version where its a simple ECU change to up the redline?

Another 1k on the redline would make a huge power difference.

Stop playing silly games Toyota and give us some power figures already!

9K RPM out of a 2-2.2L isn't really that high of a redline for an inline engine. Assuming they did their due diligence and properly balanced the engine from the factory, a 9K redline won't throw the engine balance THAT far out of whack. If they thought the balance was an issue they would've thrown on a pair of balancer shafts. If you don't mind some vibration, in a sports car you shouldn't, balance isn't really that big of an issue.

[fred_boosted]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I wonder if this comes straight out the ass of autocar or do they have a inside source?

They are guessing...

Maybe, dreaming about it.

[Levi]

That would be nice, as from the spyshots I like the Subaru fornt more than the Toyota front.

As for "much HP from ECU" is possible. I do not think the Subaru will be more powerful, but it is possible up to 250 PS. With different ECU, different headers and maybe even ITB, exclusivly for Subaru it could get 230 PS. But, note, if this ever happens, in terms of technical possibilities, it will not be a tuned FT-86 engine, but rather the other way round, the FT-86 will have a detuned BRZ engine. On a Mercedes C 63 AMG you can get 50 PS with only an ECU remap, because at the end that engine is a detuned version of the E 63 AMG.

[sfwg]

"The stability control system, for example, will allow a degree of drift before intervening."

[Jordo!]

Feh. I call shennanegans.

1. The Supra rumor is old foklore at this point... I doubt that's a real update. Wishful thinking, methinks.

2. 200 is already less than 300; I didn't see any claim the BRZ would be tuned to make any more power than its Toyota counterpart. Again, most likely wishful thinking.

See here: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/259183/

[fernan2]

Originally Posted by fred_boosted

I guess subie will have STi version of this thing...

20K - 2.0L N/A 200 bhp

24~25K - 2.5 N/A 230~240 bhp

30K - 2.0L tubro charged! 280~300 bhp

Sport package of brembo brakes and stiffer springs. about 3K~4K.

wow, can't wait...

Lets turbo charge it!

Ok, this wont happen! Subaru is planning the next WRX (2013) to be a 2door sport car, so there is no way there going to take sales away from the WRX with a car that has the same power but is cheaper to get. That would be stupid for subaru!

[SUB-FT86]

Subaru will make the wrx a 2 door sports car? I highly doubt that fernan2. I need confirmation on that from a Subaru official.

[fernan2]

[QUOTE=SUB-FT86;64993]Subaru will make the wrx a 2 door sports car? I highly doubt that fernan2. I need confirmation on that from a Subaru official.[/QUOT]

EDIT: ALL THIS ARE RUMORS.

[VenomRush]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

"Subaru has confirmed to Autocar that there won’t be a turbocharged version or an all-wheel-drive BRZ and a convertible version has been ruled out."

"Power outputs, however, will differ with a Subaru-spec ECU liberating the BRZ’s power to “less than 300bhp,” compared with the FT-86’s 200bhp figure. "




Near 300hp out of a NA 2.0l is not going to happen with just ECU tuning.

well what the hell does honda know that everyone else doesn't

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

200 is already less than 300; I didn't see any claim the BRZ would be tuned to make any more power than its Toyota counterpart.

The article states:

"Subaru-spec ECU liberating the BRZ’s power to 'less than 300bhp,' compared with the FT-86’s 200bhp figure."

Some people are taking that to mean that the BRZ will have more horsepower than the 200hp which the FT-86 will ship with. How much more, up to the 300hp mark, is anyones guess.

I have already thrown the challenge flag and agree with the others who think both cars will be exactly the same save for slight front/rear facia changes and different interiors.

Mid-cycle refresh is a whole different story though