MT to AT swap? Doable or craziness?

[SubieRumble]

Yeah... Probably easier(and waaaaay cheaper) to pull your mods and revert to stock(or as close as possible) and trade with someone who regrets getting an auto. Swap everything over and presto!

[Dfyfzx]

Originally Posted by steve99

The ECU's (engine control module) appear to be same hardware, between auto and manual. Wayno got a USA manual ecu and ran it in his Australian Auto car.


You will need to reflash the ECU with the appropriate auto rom with your turbo tune in it. You can force ecutek to do this, but you will need to get your tuner to provide you with the corresponding auto tune.


The dash cluster ,imobiliser ECU and key fobs are all part of a security set so any time you swap these components you will need to go through a procedure to sync them to security.


You will just need to reflash the ECU but to swap dash you will need to use the procedure in the service manual.


hopefully all the wiring loom is same and has poits to plug in all the auto trans control computers, also the VSC traction mich be different module and hopefully the extra console switches and flappy paddles connectors are all their . Their is also vaccumm pump for auto where the cam plate is on manuals, neutral switch instead of clutch switch and possibly heaps of other odds and ends.


you would want to do heaps of research.

Best answer so far... The odds and ends im sure would add up but all the weird stock parts I'd need are dirt cheap on eBay, it just depends how many of them there are. The wiring was my biggest concern. If it was a few days worth of swapping stock parts around, that wouldn't put me off. I was aware of needing it retuned so that's another expense. It's adding up...

And to those saying I'm being unfair to the stock transmission: I agree. It wasn't designed for this abuse, however, I've had MANY hot cars throughout the years and the only other car I've had that the transmission didn't feel completely stock after adding 100+ hp over stock was my S2000. Oddly enough, it was another Aisin transmission that's closely related to the 86 box. Like I already said, I added lots of go fast bits and now I have to baby my shifts and all the joy is drained from the experience. It's actually so obnoxious, I'm not sure I could even sell the car unless it was to another die hard 86 fan that's aware of the fact it's supposed to drive like crap after spending $15000 on the car. An 86 noob wouldnt touch this car with a ten foot pole!

If there was a bolt in swap kit that would cost less than $3000-$4000 completely done and driving, I'd be all over it! Hasn't happened yet. Or has it? Anyone aware of a shop throwing Cd009, r154, t56, etc. trannies in our cars for a few thousand out the door???

[Frishkorn]

You already must have spent a ton of money getting it to 400HP. At this point you might as well spend some more and swap the transmission too.

This is why though I'm really second guessing boosting my FA20. More and more it seems the better way to go is swap the motor with a 2JZ-GTE and a V160.

[Dfyfzx]

^ I bought it already mostly built. I wouldn't sink all that money into one, personally. 2j or LS swap is the way to go. You're going to spend the same amount if you do a built FA20 "right". I actually like the idea of a 1UZ swap but with the 2j and LS support already out there it would cost more and you'd end up with less.

[Frishkorn]

Originally Posted by Dfyfzx

^ I bought it already mostly built. I wouldn't sink all that money into one, personally. 2j or LS swap is the way to go. You're going to spend the same amount if you do a built FA20 "right". I actually like the idea of a 1UZ swap but with the 2j and LS support already out there it would cost more and you'd end up with less.

That's what has been great about these forums is learning every angle before jumping head first. If you would have asked me three years ago when I bought the car, I would have said I can't wait to turbo or supercharge it.

Then I started reading basically every part on this car is absolutely weak and once you hit about 350 HP / 250 TQ you're going to need to start replacing everything from the engine back. I understand they were trying to hit a price point, but it's going to break my heart losing the one part about the car that made it great. A lower CoG.

Shame you can't hit the lottery and throw in a dog box sequential!

[Dfyfzx]

The amount of money some of these people spend on these cars is nuts! They could buy an NSX, Supra, Z06... I have $22,000 in my FRS and want to keep it under $30,000 all done and I'd still like a built bottom end eventually. If I hit 981 cayman money I'm going to be sick.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Frishkorn

That's what has been great about these forums is learning every angle before jumping head first. If you would have asked me three years ago when I bought the car, I would have said I can't wait to turbo or supercharge it.

Then I started reading basically every part on this car is absolutely weak and once you hit about 350 HP / 250 TQ you're going to need to start replacing everything from the engine back. I understand they were trying to hit a price point, but it's going to break my heart losing the one part about the car that made it great. A lower CoG.

Shame you can't hit the lottery and throw in a dog box sequential!

Hitting a price point, target weight, regulated emissions, safety requirements, ease of manufacture, standardized reparability, minimal parts stock held and probably a couple of more reasons I can't think of.
Why on earth would the car be designed for one horsepower and from the engine back be expected to hold up under more than twice what is expected?
If hitting those high numbers people need to be prepared to spend the bucks to bring the rest of the car up to the same level. Sounds like Dfy at least understands this concept even if he doesn't like the idea. There doesn't seem to be many options for built trannys for these cars yet and that sort of surprises me with the high HP some are pumping through them. Not sure if this ever went anyplace but may be a jump off point. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104875

[jasonojordan]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Hitting a price point, target weight, regulated emissions, safety requirements, ease of manufacture, standardized reparability, minimal parts stock held and probably a couple of more reasons I can't think of.
Why on earth would the car be designed for one horsepower and from the engine back be expected to hold up under more than twice what is expected?
If hitting those high numbers people need to be prepared to spend the bucks to bring the rest of the car up to the same level. Sounds like Dfy at least understands this concept even if he doesn't like the idea. There doesn't seem to be many options for built trannys for these cars yet and that sort of surprises me with the high HP some are pumping through them. Not sure if this ever went anyplace but may be a jump off point. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104875

I guess I'm not to surprised that there isn't alot out there for transmission options. 9/10 people who buy these cars are going to go poweeeeeer poweeerr mods must have powwwwwer. So thats where all the R&D and money is spent since thats what the masses want. The people that mod intelligently by building the car from the bottom up. tires wheel brakes transmission then go for the power are few and far between. I learned this mod method the hard way since I went the powwwwwweerr route on my 02 wrx with stock everything and it was a mess.

[Frishkorn]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Hitting a price point, target weight, regulated emissions, safety requirements, ease of manufacture, standardized reparability, minimal parts stock held and probably a couple of more reasons I can't think of.
Why on earth would the car be designed for one horsepower and from the engine back be expected to hold up under more than twice what is expected?
If hitting those high numbers people need to be prepared to spend the bucks to bring the rest of the car up to the same level. Sounds like Dfy at least understands this concept even if he doesn't like the idea. There doesn't seem to be many options for built trannys for these cars yet and that sort of surprises me with the high HP some are pumping through them. Not sure if this ever went anyplace but may be a jump off point. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104875

Poking around I saw that T5 swap as well. Looks interesting. But as much work as this block would take and money, I could sell the FA20 at a discount and get me to about half of what I would need for a used 2JZ. Having a daily driver, I wouldn't mind letting the FR-S sit in the garage so I can sell one motor and purchase the other in time.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

..Why on earth would the car be designed for one horsepower and from the engine back be expected to hold up under more than twice what is expected?.

This.....

@Dfyfzx, definitely sounds like you know what the problem is and are heading in the right direction, but I think it is going to be much greater cost than just swapping out the transmission. There are a LOT of associated parts as others have said. In the end though, you have to consider the entire drivetrain when increasing HP that much, one of the reasons I don't do it. I could see increasing HP 10% to 25% and expecting other parts to work, but doubling it...not so much.

Anytime this subject comes up, I always think of this ad from Porsche that best explains what it takes to add a turbocharger at the factory....

[Dfyfzx]

That's a cool ad. Never seen it before.

I'm a very analytical guy and was well aware that the transmission wasn't designed for this much power, but I expected it to shift and function nearly like stock and then eventually let go. The fact they work great stock but then when you add power they cease to shift well kind of boggles my mind. The rpms and synchros I thought would be the same so I didn't expect driveability to be degraded. I fully expected the teeth on the gears, a shaft or a bearing to eventually let go.

Back on topic, I don't think I want to try a stock AT swap without knowing a specific parts list of everything that would be needed. The parts aren't expensive but 25 parts to buy at maybe $100 per part average adds up like crazy. Probably not worth it. Guess I'm holding out waiting on a shop to make a bolt in swap kit. It's crossed my mind to just sell the car and jump on an LS swapped car when one pops up...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dfyfzx

That's a cool ad. Never seen it before.

I'm a very analytical guy and was well aware that the transmission wasn't designed for this much power, but I expected it to shift and function nearly like stock and then eventually let go. The fact they work great stock but then when you add power they cease to shift well kind of boggles my mind. The rpms and synchros I thought would be the same so I didn't expect driveability to be degraded. I fully expected the teeth on the gears, a shaft or a bearing to eventually let go.

Back on topic, I don't think I want to try a stock AT swap without knowing a specific parts list of everything that would be needed. The parts aren't expensive but 25 parts to buy at maybe $100 per part average adds up like crazy. Probably not worth it. Guess I'm holding out waiting on a shop to make a bolt in swap kit. It's crossed my mind to just sell the car and jump on an LS swapped car when one pops up...

Not sure that just swapping for a stock At would fix your concern or just postpone the inevitable anyway. Did you see the info in that link I posted? Apparently there was a beefed up MT in the works but it doesn't say if it ever actually materialized.

[Dfyfzx]

I've been in contact with SpencerFab already. FullBlown can also get an R154 in the car with their existing V160 kit. I'm simply not excited about the T5 or R154 transmissions but if the price was right I guess it'd be a worthy option. The CD009 or Magnum XL is what I'd ideally pick if I had my way but if they're not supported... The car has only been out ~4 years and most of that time has been dedicated to power adders and chassis upgrades. I feel like we're finally to the point where people are starting to demand transmission work that can support the power mods. Just a matter of time. The more threads that we get going begging for transmission options, the more the shops and vendors will push the technology. Hopefully.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Dfyfzx

That's a cool ad. Never seen it before. ...

Yea, I particularly like the tag line. Plan, simple says it all.

Sort of like the old Bell helmet ad in back in the day that said "If you have a $10 head, wear a $10 helmet". I saw that when I was 10 and its stuck with me for over 40 years.