Strut...and anti-sway bar questions

[gramicci101]

If so, it's only $26 more to buy a whole new set.
http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/tein...l#.WEOBCXi9LCQ

[Adam_L]

Thanks for the tip on the Tein Flex Z set up. They look good, bummer about them not being rebuildable (yet at the price, I wouldn't expect them to be).

Looks like the TEIN MONO SPORT is rebuildable, that is their lowest starting point for rebuildable, but at about double the price as the Flex Z.

Bilstein B14 also looks good for the $. Or… I'll bet I could piece together a Eibach Pro spring kit, and Koni yellow sport struts (rebuildable) Front , not sure on rear shocks but something good/inexpensive, all new for about $500-600.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

To lower the car 1" to 1.2" ( haven't decided yet on which), give it a lower center of gravity and have it handle a bit better then stock.

A 1" lower car with everything else same, won't give you a better handling than stock. You'll be very lucky if you get the same handling.

[gramicci101]

However, lowering the car AND changing the spring rates very often will improve handling. Which is why so many people do it.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

A 1" lower car with everything else same, won't give you a better handling than stock. You'll be very lucky if you get the same handling.

Gotcha, so a 1" drop...is just a 1" drop.

So the consensus sounds like going coil-over is the best overall performance ( strut and spring are tuned for each other...no guess work). Seems like most folks on the forms go with a certain model Tein, KW, or possibly Cusco ( Ohlins if you have $2k to drop, ...and not so sure how many people are gravitating towards Bilstein since they have released their product line).

In regards to Tein z flex (and/or someone with the mono sport or Mono z flex), how easy/difficult are they to adjust ride height ??
Thanks in advance

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Gotcha, so a 1" drop...is just a 1" drop.

So the consensus sounds like going coil-over is the best overall performance ( strut and spring are tuned for each other...no guess work). Seems like most folks on the forms go with a certain model Tein, KW, or possibly Cusco ( Ohlins if you have $2k to drop, ...and not so sure how many people are gravitating towards Bilstein since they have released their product line).

In regards to Tein z flex (and/or someone with the mono sport or Mono z flex), how easy/difficult are they to adjust ride height ??
Thanks in advance

The drop doesn't matter; the spring rate matters. Eibach pro will be an improvement over stock. Or RCE Yellow, which only drops 20mm.

As far as adjusting, they're all pretty much the same. An adjustment collar and a lock collar. Lift that corner, use the included spanner to spin the lock collar loose, then use the spanner to adjust the other collar to where you want it to sit.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

A 1" lower car with everything else same, won't give you a better handling than stock. You'll be very lucky if you get the same handling.

Right, I didn't imply that I would cut the stock spring to then give me a 1" drop...that is ghetto.

So even if I did Eibach pro 1" drop progressive springs ( or possibly H&R springs at a 1.2" drop) , then I can use my oem struts and that would be legit (better then stock). That would be the $200 parts lowest cost method.

I am leaning towards either doing that (above) , or going with a coil over set up, that is rebuild able ( for $1200-1400 if possible) . Don't want to over spend, yet once the installation is done I don't want to look back and say...I shoulda...coulda...woulda...

[coxxoc]

Tein Monosport isn't the entry point rebuildable coilover for their brand. Flex A is rebuildable and includes their hydraulic bump stop technology for a couple hundred more than the Flex Z and $600 less than Monosport.

http://www.tein.com/products/flex_a.html

[Adam_L]

Sweet, thanks for that link...I'll look into pricing on those.

As for coil overs, I am probably leaning towards Tein due to price, plus they have been around for years ( and most likely will be around for 5-10+ more years...if it comes time to rebuild and need small parts.

[RJasonKlein]

I'd recommend contacting CounterSpace Garage or Racecomp Engineering and telling them your goals and asking for their suggestions - they're both reputable, support the forum, and really know their stuff.

Having said that, my initial thoughts are to recommend a straight wound spring (not a progressive) like the Racecomp Engineering 'Yellow' and Bilstein B8 dampers with crash bolts to maximize camber. Wheel control and damping will be far superior to OEM, with higher overall grip and excellent balance at the limits. I'd personally rather have a decent quality damper matched to a proven spring than a low-end coilover, although I admit I don't have any personal experience with the Teins being recommended.

Good luck!

[Adam_L]

Thanks RJasonKlein for the recommendations. I'll look into CounterSpace Garage or Racecomp Engineering and see what they say.

I am leaning towards a mono-tube design (and something rebuild-able) coilover if possible (like the Tein Mono sport or Bilstein B14 or B16) . Mono-tube designs tend to be on upper end coilovers, plus they help dissipate heat much better then a twin tube design (less heat built up... theoretically you'd think longer lasting/ more durable). Tein has more height adjust possibilities , however from reading it seems like a lot of forum members have gone with the B14 coilovers and are very happen with them (for about $1000). B16 is similar, but adds more adjustment (compression /rebound) ... which it's always nice to have adjustment options, but not so sure I would utilize these features much if it's more so (99%) a street driven car. B14 or Mono-sports quality wise, I'd most likely be perfectly happy with... at their price range.

[strat61caster]

I had B14's on my car for about a month. As they were off the shelf I think you'll be pretty happy, lower without sacrficing anything, they didn't light my world on fire, but they were 'good'.

Then I got them revalved for linear rate springs and am trying to figure out a competitive autocross setup so I'm off in my own little experimental land.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

These cars do not have a lot of travel to begin with. I will state the obvious: the lower you go the less travel you have. Generally speaking if you have less travel you will need higher rate springs which means less comfort.

and

Originally Posted by nikitopo

A 1" lower car with everything else same, won't give you a better handling than stock. You'll be very lucky if you get the same handling.

does not equal

Originally Posted by gramicci101

However, lowering the car AND changing the spring rates very often will improve handling. Which is why so many people do it.

So....

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Gotcha, so a 1" drop...is just a 1" drop.

...NO, definitely not. Infact you got what nikitopo said all wrong!

If you lower the car, you need harder springs. If you get harder springs you need tires that produce more grip (i.e. now "everything else same" not the same). Lowering the car/grippier tires etc., will change the character of the car. It will no longer be as "playfull" as stock. It will won't step out a bit like it does stock, and you will not really want it to do so on public roads. It won't just step out a bit and subsequently correct itself without input.

This quote from Chris Harris (

), perfectly describes the stock playfullness:

"Every time you come into the bowl of a corner, you hit the apex and you tend to just go, "I know what! I'm just going to bash the throttle a little bit harder to feel it move a little bit!"

...and this is what you will lose. Hence...

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Ultimately, I'd like to find a set up that gives the same/ similar ride performance as stock.

...is not possible.


Another good read is the first post in this thread:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10643

Personally, if I upgrade to a 2017, I will keep it stock (except for grippier tires and other brake pads for track). My car was much more fun on the streets before than it is now.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by Tor

...NO, definitely not. Infact you got what nikitopo said all wrong!

Another good read is the first post in this thread:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10643

When I replied back to nikitopo, I was being sarcastic.... in a written form.

I did read that by Moto-P , good write up. That is why I haven't changed anything with my suspension (yet) , and still researching.

He said "Stiff, low, suspension and stock tire is about the worst combination you can have in the FRS. Soft compliant suspension and mild drop and healthy set of fairly grippy tires is the only way to NOT ruin a great car, if this is a mild build."

I concur , absolutely. That is why I am pretty much leaning towards say a B14 coilover (given how neutral it seems, about 1" drop) where progressive springs are matched with the gas strut as they are tuned for each other/compliment each other , or I go with some kind of 1"- 1.25" drop spring (I don't trust anything with more then 1.25" drop), with quality strut (most likely something adjustable .... thus my initial question on this thread = is it best to go with an adjustable strut on the front corners, and/or does rear matter that much having adjustable ??!!??).

So I most likely will eventually go with :
1. a quality coilover that won't compromise the playfulness of the FR-S , like a B14 ....seems solid. I don't hear many forum users saying much about the Tein Mono sport.... but on paper /specs they look solid.
2. ... or I go with a quality spring/strut combo (nothing out there seems "tuned" for each other... let me research this more so.....)

3. replace stock tires, with a quality summer, semi sticky yet can produce a decent amount of miles driven (30-40K if possible) , possibly a 225-45-17. I have even heard going with something wider then a 215 up front changes the characteristics of how the car handles (turn in / turn out , etc).

.... still researching, because I'm a researching fool / junkie