..... vs. DC2 Integra Type R

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Touge Monster

Awd is a completely different animal altogether and again the ITR is a great machine I would love to own another one if I wasn't so paraniod about some one stealing/vandalizing it. Yes fwd does have some advantages in a low grip situation rain/snow/mud etc it can be more stable than FR/MR. However climbing a hill or drag racing is not something ff excels at. For what it's worth I used to beat up on mr2s and silvias on the "canyon roads" in my ITR I was all about FF for years but once I switch drivetrains I was able to appreciate the extra control provided by FR and I never went back.

saying stuff like that is simply closed minded. switched drivetrains and never went back? thats not a good move. when i dont like something its because i didnt like it. saying you arent going back is just uneducated bias

[2forme]

Originally Posted by fatoni

have you ever owned an itr? that car is crazy

Owned personally? No. One of my best friends had one though and I've driven it plenty of times to know what the car is capable of. People do give it a LOT more credit than it deserves, but that's not to downplay what it is. 10 years ago, it was amazing. High revving, dual cam profiles, very very nice handling, decent MPG... but it's gotten a bit outdated. The K20's, F20's, etc are much better engines to start with than the already strung out B18C5. There's nothing wrong with that, because progress is a GOOD thing.

Honestly, the ITR had huge hype in the early 00's and deservedly so. I think most of that hype is still carrying on today, which is hard for some people to let go.

[TouchMyHonda]

At this point all The words in this thread look like bitch complain moan bitch complain moan bitch complain moan.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by TouchMyHonda

At this point all The words in this thread look like bitch complain moan bitch complain moan bitch complain moan.

How did anything I said sound like a bitch, moan, or complaint?

[Touge Monster]

This thread is full of win : )

[oldman]

Originally Posted by chopstickz

Let's not forget that this is a pretty heavily modified NA 4age with ~175hp, however Tsuchiya's 86 is a decent amount of lbs lighter.

I gave up on the 4ag, even with big bucks I estimated my streetable 4ag put out 150 net HP. I put in a 3tg with a W50 trans punched to 2.0 and I was just shy of 190 net HP. I'm sure there has been lots of 4ag stuff out since I got rid of mine in the late 80s but the 3tg was so much better with much more torque and the W50 was a far far far stronger trans vs the T50. The 10 bolt was OK as long as you did not banzai the 3tg too much many people put in a GM 10 bolt with the 7 and 3/8 ring and that was a light efficient and indestructible rear and the 99 version even came stock with a torsen, of course I was long out of Toy racing by then. So take it all with a grain of salt, but my 4ag with $$$ into it was easily stomped by a near stock 3tg, and completely blown away by the far cheaper to build 1.8 to 2.0 3tg Got all my stuff from Japan like TRD and HKS and from the Toy Store in Las Vegas, these were old guys back in the day, don't think they are around anymore. My wife has a nice home and farm in Japan, so I got all the cool stuff like Pioneer supertuner component systems when every one else in 1976 had just the FM supertuner... hah! of course the readout was all in Japanese..

[oldman]

Originally Posted by quik1987

FIGHT!

cool link and pics. I own a 1998 ITR now, I've owned another 1997 ITR in the US (got stolen) and one in Japan (1996). The 2639 curb is for the 2000 USDM ITR with side impact beams, rear lower floor brace, A/C and rear wiper. The 1997 base was about 2550 lbs curb. The JDM with far less stuff like no clock, radio, ABS, P/S, crush beams fore / aft and center was more like 2480 curb and 2430 shipping weight. When you are talking light weight cars 100 to 200 lbs makes a big difference. The 1998 JDM ITR put out a real 203 HP net, about 205 din with a good bit of torque boost due to the 4 to 1 header. Yes I know it was rated at 200 DIN same as the 1996. I have both exhaust systems and the header does offer more HP and a good bit of usable torque.

I can't drive both my BRZ and my ITR at the same time, but gut feeling as I learn the streetable limits of the BRZ it is a little slower 0-60 and in the 1/4 and it takes a whole lot more car / mind oneness when pushed near the limits down the back roads and I live in the boonies so I got a lot of these. In a year when my BRZ is fully broken in, and I know it limits maybe they will be dead even. I'm comparing this to a decade of stock ITR driving, my ITR now has a few common exhaust mods and a set of Stage 1 cams and tune say about +15 HP and -50 lbs of "stuff". I luv the ITR but the BRZ is the future and IMO,given 10 years of evolution, simple bolt ons will put the BRZ far ahead of the ITR. As an example the ITR must have a 100 good headers and IMO the skunk2 alpa which is about 6 months old on the market is the best one for my setup. One can only think what 15 years worth of header, head port, cam and tune is going to do to the BRZ. Bummer that the BRZ is going to be pain to change cams. My older bro has a BRZ and wants to do cams and maybe a stroker! He is retired now so time and bucks no object. I know at some point you might as well go FI, but what fun is that? As it is too "easy" LOL.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Launch. Look at the 5-60 times for the BRZ, they are pitiful because of the dip. The BRZ was dead even with my stock *GSR* from a 20MPH roll until I had to shift in the BRZ, then the GS-R pulled a bit.

Are those numbers from the same dyno on the same day? If not, they don't mean much. I could go make a dyno show my BRZ at 150hp, and then change some settings to make it match a 170whp dyno.

Some stock ITRs (ie good driver at sea level strips) have also posted 13.8-13.9 in the quarter, has a BRZ touched that yet?

I gain nothing by stating the ITR is faster, but I doubt my BRZ is that much slower than the norm or that my ITR is that much faster than the norm.

I even stated from a launch, the two should be more or less equal.

There is a lot of miss info here a base Japan ITR either 1996 or 1998 with fumes in the gas tank, 110 lbs driver if that and using drag strip roll outs with a engine that puts out about 10 more real HP vs USDM, can do a 14.2. 100% showroom stock.

The best USDM road test was like a 14.8 at 95 MPH and this was the heaviest version with A/C. The best I ever heard of was a 14.6 for a 1997 ITR bone stock no A/C. So say that or even a 14.4 @96 MPH under optimal conditions lightest version VHT prep track with a good tail wind and 20 degrees out. Not slow by any means but it ain't a 13.9. My own ITR with GTech does high 14s at 94 MPH when stock, with cams, exahust and tune, -50 lbs of stuff I've gone 14.2 at 97 or 98 MPH (slightly longer et).... I'm not the best driver but I do have hundreds if not over a thousand thru the gear blast on ITRs.... I just have not sent the rod thru the block on the current ITR... with 120,000 on the clock...but soon I try hard every day.... So my car in the US puts out say 5 to 10 HP more than the JDM ITR and weights with a fuller tank of gas a 60 lbs heavier driver and 100+ lbs heavier car does about the same ET.... sounds about right. 14.4 or even a 14.2 is NOT a 13.9... for that IMO would need DRs and a banzai launch and at the very least changing the 45mm USDM cat out for a 57 mm JDM version ...

I expect the twins will be in the mid 14s with breakin and some mild blot ons.. But neither the ITR or the twins were build for stop light kungfu or the 1/4 mile.

[Dave-ROR]

Just go find activeaeros old posts. I don't recall which tires (drag radials at the most though). He did many 13.9s on a stock ITR. I've seen it happen.

The BRZ at a roll is slower than my gsr which means its even slower than my ITR.

You can't change just the cat, but I'm sure you knew that

You ever go to one of the ITR expos?

[Sidewayz]

I dont own an ITR but currently a jdm CTR which is lighter than an ITR.
regarding the 1/4 time of the ITR, back in the days when i was still living in California. We used to go to Pomona raceway evry few months when they open it for the public. I had a 1999 civic Si back then. Also was a member of Team ViSion. mostly civic Si owners, but also had type R members too. The fastest ITR i saw stock did a 14.3. Theres just NO way it can do a 13.9. Whats the elevation of the track youre on?

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Just go find activeaeros old posts. I don't recall which tires (drag radials at the most though). He did many 13.9s on a stock ITR. I've seen it happen.

The BRZ at a roll is slower than my gsr which means its even slower than my ITR.

You can't change just the cat, but I'm sure you knew that

You ever go to one of the ITR expos?

It would take me like 5 seconds to inspect a "stock" ITR and show you where the HP was being made, the first crazy bottle neck is that ALL Integras run the same super small CAT 45mm, the JDM ITR has a 57 MM cat with a "2.5" inch external donut. The Cat and downpipe mods are worth 7 to 10 HP right there. Toss out 50 lbs of weight... still stock, you get the drift. The 1998 up safety cross beam under the seat with ties to the B pillars plus bolts is about 20 pounds... still stock, just don't get T-Boned in an accident.

I could put my car back into 100% stock condition and it would still put out about 215 to 220 HP, things like removal of the internal twin wall of the down pipe and a stock Prelude size Cat s are almost impossible to see "stock" the .5 CR increase skunk2 valves, or the .3 CR single shim head gasket is worth 5 HP, cam gears, Toda B cams, chip tune all look 100% stock.

The basic truth of the matter is the fastest stock cars ain't stock.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Just go find activeaeros old posts. I don't recall which tires (drag radials at the most though). He did many 13.9s on a stock ITR. I've seen it happen.

The BRZ at a roll is slower than my gsr which means its even slower than my ITR.

You can't change just the cat, but I'm sure you knew that

You ever go to one of the ITR expos?

I want to go, but these are old cars and the 3500 mile round trip plus racing means a good chance I'm tow / dolly my car back home.... I'm so much more into the twins... it is the future.

[eljefe]

Originally Posted by Sparkplug

Same. Nothing is more depressing than understeer from a supposedly "great" FWD car on a road course.

RWD or go home...

RWD might be superior, but you've obviously never driven an ITR.

[uncivilised]

my old car, proper JDM 98 spec too

i shall compare when i get my 86