Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by fenton

Remember though if he is at work or something he might not see much on post 1.

Im at work now and all pictures of DYNO's and whatnot are blocked.

True! lol but coming in here with an unnecessary negative attitude just annoyed me.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

I'm tuned. Some of you are not going to be happy, but I chose not to dyno tune. The dyno was available, and I asked about getting on the dyno, but Mike gave me the following choice: we can get on the dyno and tune it for the dyno, or we can get a lot more data doing the tune right on the car. While he didn't use the exact words, the intent was "do you want it to look good on a dyno or run great on the street".

We were able to get about 16 pulls on the road next to Mike's shop. Mike also had me hammer the car for him so he could get a feel for what the ESC was capable of. After I was able to prove that this wasn't a glorified "leaf blower" it was time to get to work. Here's the way it rolled out:

The first 4 runs were baselines. Looking at the data Mike could see some detonation at the onset of boost. We took the data to a computer with a very large screen and Mike started to build a map based on the split personality of the power delivery. Mike must have opened 2 dozen different tables to gather information that he wanted to use. After he had the timing in a range that he thought would work well he performed the first flash of the ECU and we went out for another four pulls.

During these pulls Mike focused on a particular rpm range. With new data in hand it was back to the computer. Mike reviewed the results and determined that his initial thoughts on tuning this car were correct so he once again focused in the timing.

For the third set of runs he looked at the full rpm range from 2500 rpm to redline. With this data he was able to adjust fuel trims, the MAF a host of other things that I can't remember. He also asked me about the features I wanted to include on my tune.

We went back out and did a few more runs. Mike was satisfied that the engine was running safely on the available boost. Then he took the helm and ran the car through its paces. I'll let Mike give his own conclusions and impressions. But I'm fairly certain that he liked it. Mike's personal car has an Innovate SC so he can give a great comparative reference.

So how much horsepower do I make. Enough. I really don't care. Like I've said before, I'm not fighting the horsepower wars. I wanted outstanding drivability. I have that. Oh man do I have that. What was once the valley of death is now where this engine shines. It's a complete transformation.

Mike is a nice guy and a very experienced tuner. He was able to zero in on what had to be done and didn't spend any time guessing and playing "what if" games. His focus was on one thing, a safe tune. I look forward to his input on the ESC. I also left out a lot of the details of the tune. Mike can share what he wants. I'll have direct input for Rob.

I will say this, like many I've been intrigued by Open Flash. But after watching Mike at work, Open Flash (in my hands) would be a serious can of worms. It was nice to be able to sit down with Mike and understand what he did, but I have no business attempting to tune an ECU.

Final thoughts: I really liked my BRZ before I added the ESC. With the ESC installed the car moved into my Favorite Car Ever position (a coveted position given the other cars I've owned). Now that its properly tuned the ESC feels so perfectly integrated into the car. I actually look forward to driving the car. I haven't had that feeling in a very long time.

Ug... no dynos... Well, I'm happy your car is running well, that's something.

[Diggitydog89]

Originally Posted by raven1231

True! lol but coming in here with an unnecessary negative attitude just annoyed me.

Sorry to rustle your jimmies... didnt mean to be negative

[mid_life_crisis]

I meant I would like boost to be the same across all rpm range which I guess means limiting boost to 1 psi across the board in order to not feel a drop-off in torque. I figured drag reduction requires changing motor speed already, it might be doable when the WOT means maintaining 1 psi?

@Robftss
Thinking along those lines, how hard would it be to determine at what boost level the CELs go off and create a system that doesn't boost quite high enough to overrun the factory tables? It would obviously not make as much power as a tuned, higher boost system, but it would still be a nice bump for those who want to improve the car but don't want to tune and get nervous about faking out the ECU with voltage clamps and the like. It could be done with a bypass valve I suppose, but that would be a waste of electricity.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

@Robftss
Thinking along those lines, how hard would it be to determine at what boost level the CELs go off and create a system that doesn't boost quite high enough to overrun the factory tables? It would obviously not make as much power as a tuned, higher boost system, but it would still be a nice bump for those who want to improve the car but don't want to tune and get nervous about faking out the ECU with voltage clamps and the like. It could be done with a bypass valve I suppose, but that would be a waste of electricity.

It's interesting that the system can seemingly run ok with a stock ECU (Gary reported some detonation), but I personally think this system should be sold with a map. Long term it doesn't seem right to run it with no tune, even if boost is limited.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

It's interesting that the system can seemingly run ok with a stock ECU (Gary reported some detonation), but I personally think this system should be sold with a map. Long term it doesn't seem right to run it with no tune, even if boost is limited.

If I recall correctly, it will come with a base tune for BRZEdit. Be nice if they could get the OpenFlash guys to do one.
I'm hoping that limiting the boost would clear up the detonation/CEL worries and still provide a nice bump for those who would like to avoid a tune.

[SloS14]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

If I recall correctly, it will come with a base tune for BRZEdit. Be nice if they could get the OpenFlash guys to do one.
I'm hoping that limiting the boost would clear up the detonation/CEL worries and still provide a nice bump for those who would like to avoid a tune.

Ditto. I'm interested in this combined with the OpenTablet. Sounds like a good combo.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

If I recall correctly, it will come with a base tune for BRZEdit. Be nice if they could get the OpenFlash guys to do one.
I'm hoping that limiting the boost would clear up the detonation/CEL worries and still provide a nice bump for those who would like to avoid a tune.

OpenTab is in communication with Rob to my knowledge.

What kind of power are you looking for? 10hp across the board? This is alot of work for only ten hp. I dont think you would be happy with that and the rest of the time the SC would just make you lose power over stock.

The main point of this is the huge boost in low end you get to get rid of the tq dip. There are always risks and if you arent running a tune those risks just increase.

Personally i wouldn't spend 1500 on something that only gave you 10 hp.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

@Robftss
Thinking along those lines, how hard would it be to determine at what boost level the CELs go off and create a system that doesn't boost quite high enough to overrun the factory tables? It would obviously not make as much power as a tuned, higher boost system, but it would still be a nice bump for those who want to improve the car but don't want to tune and get nervous about faking out the ECU with voltage clamps and the like. It could be done with a bypass valve I suppose, but that would be a waste of electricity.

Anything over Atmospheric pressure trips the CEL to my knowledge.

[Gary in NJ]

Originally Posted by fenton

Personally i wouldn't spend 1500 on something that only gave you 10 hp.

People spend that on exhaust systems for that exact result. And a full exhaust system and a tune just barely fill in the torque dip (some just shift it) while the ESC makes it into a mountain. Once experienced, you'd never want to water it down.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

Once experienced, you'd never want to water it down.

I agree 100 percent with this. Once you feel the pull down low you would never want to dial it down.

Its like a locomotive down there. With how light the car is 180ft/lb of torque is massive!

Name another 2700lb car thats less than 30k and that generates 180ft/lb at 2500 rpm and holds it to 5500rpm or so.

I know some little hatches and whatnot but they spike 180 and dive down.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

Once experienced, you'd never want to water it down.

I want to experience it!

[Robftss]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

@Robftss
Thinking along those lines, how hard would it be to determine at what boost level the CELs go off and create a system that doesn't boost quite high enough to overrun the factory tables? It would obviously not make as much power as a tuned, higher boost system, but it would still be a nice bump for those who want to improve the car but don't want to tune and get nervous about faking out the ECU with voltage clamps and the like. It could be done with a bypass valve I suppose, but that would be a waste of electricity.

Here is what we know:
CEL triggered up to ~4000-4500 rpm for SL guys.
CEL triggered even when 2 psi was bleed pre MAP sensor..so it saw ~ 2 psi above atmos.
Above ~4000 rpm and 3-3 1/2 psi...no CEL.

From this, and possibly a time component of high pressure seen, it looks like anything a little above ambient P, and below ~4000 rpm will trigger a CEL.

So...
A) Tune
B) Window switch for full activation (3500 to 4500 rpm?) and DR below that RPM.

Rob.

[Gary in NJ]

I don't see the need for DR. You're either in the rpm range where it would have little effect (cruise throttle position at 2000-4000 rpm) or accelerating with enough throttle that you'd just engage the ESC anyway.

I find myself now conditioned to run 0-40% throttle or WOT. There's just little point in running 50 to 70% because the ESC is engaged with around 70-80% throttle.