CSG Mike's observations on dampers/coilovers

[448hpsti]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

We run both as well, but we're running on the sticky side of the street tire spectrum. Admittedly, we haven't run anything less sticky than a 200TW tire since we've stepped up our spring rates, but even those tires are able to handle a 12k/15k spring setup.

On the other hand, we haven't run anything other than NT01/RC1, so we're not exactly deep into slick territory either...

its been a great thread to read, dont mean to go sideways with it
my street is a direzza2(around 200 also) and track is nt01

wow.that is the opposite end of the spectrum from my present setup, how does one obtain a test drive in your car at a open/track environment, driving mine then yours back to back? (nothing cracks open the wallet faster than the opening of the eyes) and thats the sort of thing I'm looking for.

I have my build, but my suspension leans streetish, rate wise. I could order a set of firmer coils and slap them on and have at it, but a trip to your neck of the woods with some planned track time sounds like something I really want to plan, and have fun, playing. Theer are tracks up that way I really wanna experience.

whens the next track day by you? I should have the car off jack stands by week's end.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by 448hpsti

its been a great thread to read, dont mean to go sideways with it
my street is a direzza2(around 200 also) and track is nt01

wow.that is the opposite end of the spectrum from my present setup, how does one obtain a test drive in your car at a open/track environment, driving mine then yours back to back? (nothing cracks open the wallet faster than the opening of the eyes) and thats the sort of thing I'm looking for.

I have my build, but my suspension leans streetish, rate wise. I could order a set of firmer coils and slap them on and have at it, but a trip to your neck of the woods with some planned track time sounds like something I really want to plan, and have fun, playing. Theer are tracks up that way I really wanna experience.

whens the next track day by you? I should have the car off jack stands by week's end.

We've had a... bad experience with that so I don't think the boss is allowing people to drive our car anymore, but we're more than willing to give demo rides.

We'll be at either BW or ACS on 9/14-15. Maybe one of each.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

It may now be a proper word in the dictionary, but for the wrong reasons. We don't need two words for damp, damped, damping, etc that have the exact same meaning and usage.

You're right. That would be double plus ungood. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak"]Newspeak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]. :happy0180:

Seriously though, I think we should concentrate more on keeping "blogosphere" and "sexting" out of the dictionary.

[diss7]

Anything involving sexting should be encouraged. If we need to add the word to the dictionary, so be it.

[Ninjin]

My suspension is too dry, which dampeners would you recommend?

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 4

[brianhj]

Originally Posted by Ninjin

My suspension is too dry, which dampeners would you recommend?

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 4

lel

[ultra]

So after reading through this a few times, am I to believe that, according to @CSG Mike , higher rate springs & damper combos are perfectly viable, if not ideal, for street amd track?

What options are put there for still, well damped coilovers besides the CSG-modded Teins? Seems that most manufacturers even in the high mid range (KW, Ohlins etc.) aren't offering anything stiffer than 8kg springs?

[Racecomp Engineering]

In the higher end range, everything is basically custom. JRZ, Moton, AST, Motion Control, KW competition....they don't really come with springs. You can get whatever you want.

In the higher mid-range, they'll usually have a default rate but you can customize them. Our RCE Tarmac 2's for example were designed (and tested) to be able to properly damp much stiffer springs than our standard 400/400 rates.

I still say you match spring rate to tire choice and application rather than just go as stiff as possible. There are also other drawbacks to running a motorsport shock on the street. Low drag seals, no dustboots, occasionally the absence of bumpstops...all of these things may not jive with street driving and might mean more frequent servicing or damaged shocks. A race part is not always great on the streets. It can perform great on the street and ride well, but it can just be a headache. And I'm saying this as someone who sells really expensive race dampers. We've turned people away that want 3-way JRZs because they did one track day and plan to do another in the next 6 months, and in the meantime will be commuting to work in Baltimore. A motorsport shock is not right for that person.

- Andy

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ultra

So after reading through this a few times, am I to believe that, according to @CSG Mike , higher rate springs & damper combos are perfectly viable, if not ideal, for street amd track?

What options are put there for still, well damped coilovers besides the CSG-modded Teins? Seems that most manufacturers even in the high mid range (KW, Ohlins etc.) aren't offering anything stiffer than 8kg springs?

Viable? Yes. Ideal? well, everything is a compromise. A lower spring rate will be better suited for street comfort (even well damped high spring rate setups will transfer SOME of the road to the chassis), but at the cost of transition speed on track.

If I had my way, I'd be street driving on a set of Penskes sprung around 6/8k for street duty, and a second set sprung and valved for 12k/15k for track duty. Either could work for canyons.

KW V3/CS and Onlins R&T/DFW are not high end offerings. They're entry level dampers. (Note, the KW V3 is one of the LEAST expensive 2 way adjustable dampers on the market; that should be a pretty big indicator. Additionally, the Ohlins R&F/DFW is their LEAST expensive damper. Again, a pretty big indicator).

I have no problem recommend KW Competition dampers and Ohlins TTX dampers, but I cannot, in good faith, recommend KW V3 for anything more than aggressive street driving. The Clubsports are of the same basic construction type as the V3. For anyone who really wants to dial their car in to their preference, I wouldn't recommend a one-way adjustable damper UNLESS you're willing to spend a lot of money on revalves and/or can tune the damper yourself.

I've seen some wicked street JRZ setups using lower rates. We'll probably eventually delve into that after we finish development of our trackable street setup (we're currently focusing on street comfort; the performance part is satisfactory to us for now).

[448hpsti]

Loving my koni race DAMPENERS GC setup

[ultra]

Maybe I should ask this another way - what would be the best possible streetable but track biased coilover options for somebody running 225/235 Michelin Pilot Super Sports, for under $4k?

Also, what benefits would the available coilover options in that price rance have over basic stuff such as my RS*Rs?

i.e. would it be a worthwhile upgrade for the money, and how so?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ultra

Maybe I should ask this another way - what would be the best possible streetable but track biased coilover options for somebody running 225/235 Michelin Pilot Super Sports, for under $4k?

Also, what benefits would the available coilover options in that price rance have over basic stuff such as my RS*Rs?

i.e. would it be a worthwhile upgrade for the money, and how so?

Tein SRC. Nothing else is in that 4k price range.

If you bump up a little, JRZ RS and RS-Pro

Basic advantages:

- damped for higher spring rate (for track performance/response)
- Compresion/Rebound adjustable (as opposed to combined or 1 way)
- able to accommodate a wide range of spring rates
- proven results (check out our lap times vs other local shops)


This isn't a bias toward the Teins. There are just no other options in the 4k range.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Tein SRC. Nothing else is in that 4k price range.

If you bump up a little, JRZ RS and RS-Pro

Basic advantages:

- damped for higher spring rate (for track performance/response)
- Compresion/Rebound adjustable (as opposed to combined or 1 way)
- able to accommodate a wide range of spring rates
- proven results (check out our lap times vs other local shops)


This isn't a bias toward the Teins. There are just no other options in the 4k range.

What about revalving Konis for 10k+ ? Can they handle it?

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by qoncept

What about revalving Konis for 10k+ ? Can they handle it?

There isn't an off the shelf Koni brand coilover for this car. Yes there are Ground Control set-ups.

Koni Yellows can be revalved all day long, but you have to get creative with a custom housing or use sleeves to use 10 kg coilover springs, and if you do you're wasting your time because you aren't running a shorter length shock.

IMO if you're going that stiff, look elsewhere.

- andy