You just wait...

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Ok boomer

“OK BOOMER” is such a considered, intelligent, substantive comment that shows someone put a lot of thought into crafting a meaningful and courteous reply. Anyone that says “OK BOOMER” looks very cool and clever. Attractive to the opposite (or same) sex too.

Actually, no. It’s just supremely lazy. Also silly, disrespectful, counter-productive, and offensive. Hurtful too, but then, that’s the intent. It shows that someone was either too bigoted or just plain stupid to think of anything meaningful to say.

We don’t say inane things like ‘don’t melt snowflake’. Or ‘go to your room’. Or mention that your mother is probably a ‘boomer’. Or point out that most Generation Z-ers or Millennials could never imagine living without their i-technologies that are some of the most polluting items ever created.

Arbitrarily and prejudicially discriminating and dividing ourselves along generational lines only serves to distract us from the real enemy, and from working together for the common good to find solutions to the many problems facing the world.

Why not try to find common grounds to work together? Or at least live and let live? Even if it’s something as light-hearted as cars and in a place like this, and acknowledging that there is no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’? Just let everyone express whatever automotive opinions and views they like and have fun, without thinking you have the right to pass judgment on other people.

[humfrz]

I agree. Back-in-the-day, I toured a John Deere manufacturing plant, so, based on that experience, I predict that the automobile industry will bounce right back - so there - bitches -

humfrz - out!

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There is no fucking MARKET right now.
Their system is crumbling with the rest of the industry.
Get that through your thick skull!

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Politics.
Party stand.
Politics.
Politics.
Politics.
Rhetoric.
Politics.
Party stand.
More rhetoric.
Blah blah blah.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

“OK BOOMER” is such a considered, intelligent, substantive comment that shows someone put a lot of thought into crafting a meaningful and courteous reply. Anyone that says “OK BOOMER” looks very cool and clever. Attractive to the opposite (or same) sex too.

Actually, no. It’s just supremely lazy. Also silly, disrespectful, counter-productive, and offensive. Hurtful too, but then, that’s the intent. It shows that someone was either too bigoted or just plain stupid to think of anything meaningful to say.

We don’t say inane things like ‘don’t melt snowflake’. Or ‘go to your room’. Or mention that your mother is probably a ‘boomer’. Or point out that most Generation Z-ers or Millennials could never imagine living without their i-technologies that are some of the most polluting items ever created.

Arbitrarily and prejudicially discriminating and dividing ourselves along generational lines only serves to distract us from the real enemy, and from working together for the common good to find solutions to the many problems facing the world.

Why not try to find common grounds to work together? Or at least live and let live? Even if it’s something as light-hearted as cars and in a place like this, and acknowledging that there is no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’? Just let everyone express whatever automotive opinions and views they like and have fun, without thinking you have the right to pass judgment on other people.

Touche. I guess we know where we learned it from.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Why? My above example was gov healthcare. They kept saying he had strep throat. Nope, it was esophageal cancer. I also have plenty of buddies I went to school with that served. They bitch about the VA hospitals all the time. One of them had to wait years to have back surgery. Took them forever to approve it, he was injured while deployed. It was years after he got out that they finally took care of him.

We take care of our employees because we are employee owned.

As I have said, I am not against the idea of universal health care. I just have no faith in the way it will be run. Look at the last time this happened where it was required that large businesses take care of their employees and give them insurance. That was all fine and dandy except they allowed insurance companies to gouge businesses. Premiums went up drastically, we were used to 7-10% increases. Now 30% is normal.

Co-ops

Say what you want about the VA or medicare, but the polls speak for themselves more than anecdotal evidence. That isn't a dig; it is just a reminder to consider what the evidence shows and not what your buddy experienced. I work in the ER, so I can provide a bunch of anecdotal evidence.

Our current system still straps costs onto private insurance. They are paying for the higher costs associated with not pricing people with pre-existing conditions out of the market. They are paying for any deficits that exist between medicare and healthcare costs. They are paying for anyone who is not insured who comes into the ER. This is why employers are continuing to see prices increase. That, and for-profit/public insurance needs to make that money for their share holders.

In our system, if employers decide to drop insurance benefits then there can be huge burdens on the system and on those premiums for other businesses. For those who are free-lance workers or contract workers, they really can't afford new premium hikes. This is the government trying to stabilize a bad system. With that said, places like Amazon/Bezos have been making billions while taking tax payer money in tax breaks and subsidies by not paying their employees a living wage, so those employees get tax payer money in the form of food stamps, medi-cal, etc. This is why there is a mandate for businesses over 50 employees to offer healthcare.

It all sucks. We need a single payer with less middlemen, and we need to remove profits from healthcare. We are pathetically behind in providing coverage for our society.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Co-ops

Say what you want about the VA or medicare, but the polls speak for themselves more than anecdotal evidence. That isn't a dig; it is just a reminder to consider what the evidence shows and not what your buddy experienced. I work in the ER, so I can provide a bunch of anecdotal evidence.

Our current system still straps costs onto private insurance. They are paying for the higher costs associated with not pricing people with pre-existing conditions out of the market. They are paying for any deficits that exist between medicare and healthcare costs. They are paying for anyone who is not insured who comes into the ER. This is why employers are continuing to see prices increase. That, and for-profit/public insurance needs to make that money for their share holders.

In our system, if employers decide to drop insurance benefits then there can be huge burdens on the system and on those premiums for other businesses. For those who are free-lance workers or contract workers, they really can't afford new premium hikes. This is the government trying to stabilize a bad system. With that said, places like Amazon/Bezos have been making billions while taking tax payer money in tax breaks and subsidies by not paying their employees a living wage, so those employees get tax payer money in the form of food stamps, medi-cal, etc. This is why there is a mandate for businesses over 50 employees to offer healthcare.

It all sucks. We need a single payer with less middlemen, and we need to remove profits from healthcare. We are pathetically behind in providing coverage for our society.

I don't take it as a dig. I know I'm taking a small sample comparatively. I also don't just disregard contrary info. The truth is always somewhere inbetween.

That poll was from 2015 and they started tracking it at the end of the enrollment period for ACA. My insurance was better before ACA because we were able to afford much better insurance with much lower deductibles. I'm talking 800 vs 6800. We have systematically been purchasing worse and worse coverage because that's what we can afford. I became part of that decision making committee at my work in 2011. At this point it is like deciding what pizza you want from Little Caesars. I would be interested in seeing more current info, or info that includes pre-ACA data. When I get my packet of choices i'll scan it into PDF and send it to you. It is pretty sad now and is more or less disaster insurance.

Enough internet for today.

[soundman98]

^#major medical. my company is doing the same thing. once every other year, everyone in the company sits down together, the boss lays out the available plans, and we discuss what we don't need to keep our premiums from jumping above $500/person/month(employee's pay 1/3 of any premium, while the company covers the rest). we currently balance it out by using an HSA plan with a super high deductible, which significantly helps premiums from jumping too high, and allows us to pay for medical-related stuff out of a specific pocket.

honestly, i like the HSA method because i can apply 100% of my money to basic stuff like prescriptions and checkups. the better coverage method, by the time money is shuffled through insurance, i'd guess that only about 40-60% of the money paid into the premium actually pays for things.

gov-funded healthcare sure is working well for italy right now...

[Pouncer]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Have you driven through Detroit?

I haven’t driven through Detroit any more than the person I was responding to has driven through Hiroshima / Yokohama or Detroit either. The entire point of my post is that no single photo is representative of an entire city. I appreciate you (and others) reinforcing that point for me.

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Touche. I guess we know where we learned it from.

Right, and the unintended consequence is that its apparently influenced others who normally wouldn't to use the f-bomb, the epitome of laughable laziness that only diminishes any post, the forum, and it's members.

Weird that the poster doesn't even realize it but it comes up so often that it's absurd and makes me laugh. It's an interesting "feature" of this forum I've not seen on the several other auto forums I read and cheapens the ft86club brand.

I think "appropriate language" should be included in the politics and religion third rails.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Right, and the unintended consequence is that its apparently influenced others who normally wouldn't to use the f-bomb, the epitome of laughable laziness that only diminishes any post, the forum, and it's members.

Weird that the poster doesn't even realize it but it comes up so often that it's absurd and makes me laugh. It's an interesting "feature" of this forum I've not seen on the several other auto forums I read and cheapens the ft86club brand.

I think "appropriate language" should be included in the politics and religion third rails.

Many forums will remove it or replace it with #$%^&* automatically.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I don't take it as a dig. I know I'm taking a small sample comparatively. I also don't just disregard contrary info. The truth is always somewhere inbetween.

That poll was from 2015 and they started tracking it at the end of the enrollment period for ACA. My insurance was better before ACA because we were able to afford much better insurance with much lower deductibles. I'm talking 800 vs 6800. We have systematically been purchasing worse and worse coverage because that's what we can afford. I became part of that decision making committee at my work in 2011. At this point it is like deciding what pizza you want from Little Caesars. I would be interested in seeing more current info, or info that includes pre-ACA data. When I get my packet of choices i'll scan it into PDF and send it to you. It is pretty sad now and is more or less disaster insurance.

Enough internet for today.

I was trying to talk in generalities like saying it would be good to have this or that from health insurance, but I don't want to get too political by talking about who did what or how things have changed. I'll say that in general, healthcare was going up each year by a good amount, and we have seen more preventative medicine and less ER visits with more people having coverage with ACA, so things could have gone down, but things can change fast.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by soundman98

gov-funded healthcare sure is working well for italy right now...

Italy is doing bad because the didn't respond fast enough, so their healthcare system got overwhelmed just like New York, so I don't get your point.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/...rate-1980-2015

We typically do worse in most metrics. We typically pay more and get less. Some of it is the higher costs of prescription meds here than other countries. In fact, some insurance companies will fly you to Mexico for free to pick up meds from Mexico, so the insurance can save money. Some of it is because we don't have a government provided insurance, so administrative costs and middle men are much higher.

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by humfrz

I lost track, or never knew, what state do you live in?

Oregon, National Forest area, the most remote feeling place in the US I've been outside of the Olympic Peninsula and that includes Montana, Idaho and Alaska.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Oregon, National Forest area, the most remote feeling place in the US I've been outside of the Olympic Peninsula and that includes Montana, Idaho and Alaska.

Thanks. Oregon is a beautiful state.

This is the most remote feeling place I've ever been -