FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[blur]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Why do you insist on challenging me on this when I've been in the Scion game for 5years now?

Cuz the scion game is weak

JK. But seriously, you gotta be careful with buying used kits, cause you got more possibility that things will fail. And AFAIK, most turbo kits, fail at some point in one way or another. Most turbo builds, regardless of HP, are 5-10K and up, DIY. And thats the low budget builds. Once you get up to quality pieces, a build altogether can cost up upwards of 20K.

In your 3K, are you planning on using the stock ecu? stock exhaust? fuel injectors? no boost gauge or controller? no a/f gauge or controller? no tune? no insurance for when things go wrong?

Your method is flawed. Dont get me wrong though; you can turbo an engine for 3K IF you are lucky enough to have everything work out flawlessly. But that's not the case most of the time.

(btw, this gives me an idea for a show; have 2 tuning teams receive x amount of cash to make a certain car they're given go around a track as fast as possible. Fastest lap time wins!)

PS...Osama Bin Laden is dead...just sayin WOOT WOOT!

Im going to WTC right now to celebrate, lol..

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by blur

Cuz the scion game is weak

JK. But seriously, you gotta be careful with buying used kits, cause you got more possibility that things will fail. And AFAIK, most turbo kits, fail at some point in one way or another. Most turbo builds, regardless of HP, are 5-10K and up, DIY. And thats the low budget builds. Once you get up to quality pieces, a build altogether can cost up upwards of 20K.

In your 3K, are you planning on using the stock ecu? stock exhaust? fuel injectors? no boost gauge or controller? no a/f gauge or controller? no tune? no insurance for when things go wrong?

Your method is flawed. Dont get me wrong though; you can turbo an engine for 3K IF you are lucky enough to have everything work out flawlessly. But that's not the case most of the time.

(btw, this gives me an idea for a show; have 2 tuning teams receive x amount of cash to make a certain car they're given go around a track as fast as possible. Fastest lap time wins!)

Where are you getting this info from?

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by blur

In your 3K, are you planning on using the stock ecu? stock exhaust? fuel injectors? no boost gauge or controller? no a/f gauge or controller? no tune? no insurance for when things go wrong?

Yeah I agree. It isn't hard to throw a turbo kit on an engine; it is harder to throw on a turbo kit on a car and tune it such that you don't destroy your engine after a few thousand miles. Obviously each engine handles boost differently, but it seems like you would need to remap your ecu, get a boost gauge, a/f gauge, controller...etc. as you mentioned. Also seems like you would want to make sure you had large enough FMIC and fuel injectors for your power level. But as I said each engine handles boost differently. Maybe the tC engine doesn't need this much forethought in regards to the other mods to run a turbo reliable? I don't know since I'm not a tC guy but I guess Dragon has the experience.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Are you buying your parts used? Cheapest I found Tein SS for is $1100-1200. http://www.google.com/search?client=...=1263&bih=1320


The Kumho V710 are like what, $200/tire (depends on the wheel size and width of course).

Turbo kits vary so much based on the turbo kit and size/quality of the turbo. If you went with a $2000 kit I can believe it. However the Tein SS, V710s and turbo kit seem to be closer to $4000 total (Tein SS $1200 + V710s $800 + turbo kit $2000).

If you are using used parts/discount parts do to sponsorship to make a fair comparison you would need to do the same for the other cars listed above?

You're right about Tein. New kit runs about 1100-ish. I did alot of research on Tein stuff. I was about to get a kit for my car, but I was thinking about getting a new car and bike, so I didn't get it. Now I got a bike and waiting to get FT-86.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Are you buying your parts used? Cheapest I found Tein SS for is $1100-1200. http://www.google.com/search?client=...=1263&bih=1320


The Kumho V710 are like what, $200/tire (depends on the wheel size and width of course).

Turbo kits vary so much based on the turbo kit and size/quality of the turbo. If you went with a $2000 kit I can believe it. However the Tein SS, V710s and turbo kit seem to be closer to $4000 total (Tein SS $1200 + V710s $800 + turbo kit $2000).

If you are using used parts/discount parts do to sponsorship to make a fair comparison you would need to do the same for the other cars listed above?

I think you have it confused. The way I read his statement was that you could take a $3k dollar amount into a tC and still not even be close to those other cars in stock form. To which I thoroughly disagreed with.

When I'm talking about these prices, I'm not using my tC as an example. My tC has 5yrs of blood sweat and tears into it. I'm stating what I can do with a completely stock 2005-2010 tC and given $3k to mod it as a challenge to see how fast I could make it. I would source used parts totally and find deals just like I did for mine. And for $3k bucks, it would run deep into the 12's in the 1/4 mile, and blaze around the track with a competent driver behind the wheel.

Only a few things on my car are used. Tein SS are used, LSD was bought from an individual along with a TRD clutch, but those were not used, he just sold them for cheaper ($800 for the set). My wing is an APR GT200 wing. Those cost roughly $1k and I bought mine from Chris Rado for $340.

Everything else is new. That was including my old turbo setup that I sold. My new turbo setup that I'm about to drop in also new. My Carbon exterior bought with insurance money from when my wife had an accident. Instead of giving that to a body shop to return it to stock, I bought carbon replacements and installed them myself (still need to replace my upper radiator support, but it's not biggie at the moment). So, my tC may "LOOK" expensive, but it's more just means of being "Resourceful".

Kuhmo V710's are 225/45/17 I'm currently running on the stock wheels. That will change to 285 or 295/35/17's once I get my new wheels (also used set of wheels with 295 slicks mounted to them). It's a $6k dollar whee/tire combo I'm getting for $1500. The slicks are Hoosiers, not sure how much life is left in them, but I'll find out. 295 is wide but just right for the "used" widebody I'm about to put on it. The widebody is track tested and built, it's not off the shelf. That's why it's used.

It's amazing what you can get from bonified Race shops when they aren't using those parts anymore.... A race shop with custom fabricated parts are just as good as any brand new off the shelf item and perhaps better than any new off the shelf item. I will gladly take a used race proven and track test part over an off the shelf item I have to customize for greater track duty abuse.

Turbo kit can be had for as cheap as $1k for a Great branded kit from people selling in the classifieds.

As an example, here is a completely professionally done kit running a freaking GT3076R for $2k.

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200980

Now imagine a kit not as stellar but still decent enough to sustain 300+whp/tq.

($1300 bucks, this is exactly what my old turbo setup was)
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193754

And that would put you easily into the 12sec 1/4 mile times (I was trapping 110mph on that kit at 9-9.5lbs of boost)

V710s are $740 shipped to me for the size I am currently running. Again, I can run a street tire and still only lose a few seconds out of them, but still be faster than any of the stock versions of those cars listed. When I said a 400whp WRX to keep up with me, I was speaking in terms of straight line speed. Around the track, I couldn't tell you as I have only gone up against an STI at the track with me NOT on boost. He came up to me later and asked what I had under the hood. Of course my answer was "stock".

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by blur

Cuz the scion game is weak

JK. But seriously, you gotta be careful with buying used kits, cause you got more possibility that things will fail. And AFAIK, most turbo kits, fail at some point in one way or another. Most turbo builds, regardless of HP, are 5-10K and up, DIY. And thats the low budget builds. Once you get up to quality pieces, a build altogether can cost up upwards of 20K.

In your 3K, are you planning on using the stock ecu? stock exhaust? fuel injectors? no boost gauge or controller? no a/f gauge or controller? no tune? no insurance for when things go wrong?

Your method is flawed. Dont get me wrong though; you can turbo an engine for 3K IF you are lucky enough to have everything work out flawlessly. But that's not the case most of the time.

(btw, this gives me an idea for a show; have 2 tuning teams receive x amount of cash to make a certain car they're given go around a track as fast as possible. Fastest lap time wins!)



Im going to WTC right now to celebrate, lol..

See post above.

My tC has nothing to do with this. I didn't say My turbo kit was used or that I've put a used kit on it. However you can find GREAT name brand (among Scion owners that is) kits for sale by previous owners. A lot of times completely setup to run, as most of the time they have tunes already on the ECU. As a side note, if you were to run a stock ECU only on a tC, you would be limited to no more than 6lbs on a 16G turbo setup. That's about 230whp/230wtq you would get. My turbo gauge setup cost $1k, but does a person "need" to spend a grand in gauges alone? So, can't include my tC into that mix in it's present state.


@DesertSpool

When a person results to childish behavior after a general and mature conversation, I take it as a sign of weakness on his/her behalf because they have run out of things to say. Rather than admitting they don't know what they are talking about, often time they show weakness simply by responding with mockery post. Thank you for confirming you have no idea what you are talking about.

[tranzformer]

^^ Dragon, thanks for sharing your experience. Seems like you have gotten some great deals over the years. That always helps when building a car.

[Dragonitti]

^^Amen brotha. Deals, I love deals... As long as it gets me faster on the track, I'm game.

[Dragonitti]

Meh...moving along. FR-S is not a direct competitor to the 370z. Not on price and not on performance. But I do kinda see how a person in the market for a 370z might look at the FR-S and say "now that's a fine looking automobile" and actually choose it over the 370z and thus just made a comparison between the two. As mentioned, the average person who makes up this buying market, isn't going to go into this buy with the same mindset as most of us enthusiast on this forum would.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Meh...moving along. FR-S is not a direct competitor to the 370z. Not on price and not on performance. But I do kinda see how a person in the market for a 370z might look at the FR-S and say "now that's a fine looking automobile" and actually choose it over the 370z and thus just made a comparison between the two. As mentioned, the average person who makes up this buying market, isn't going to go into this buy with the same mindset as most of us enthusiast on this forum would.

The way I see it is, a person shopping for a 370Z might look at the FR-S because it's RWD, performance oriented, but cheaper and may have some attributes that are more attractive such as possibly handling, feel, lower cost of running and insurance, etc. However not everyone looking at an FR-S will look at a 370Z because it is more expensive. People initially shopping for a Z can shop down if they think it's a good buy, but people looking for FR-S pricepoint car can't go up necessarily. Thus they aren't comparable.

[Dragonitti]

^^True that.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

The way I see it is, a person shopping for a 370Z might look at the FR-S because it's RWD, performance oriented, but cheaper and may have some attributes that are more attractive such as possibly handling, feel, lower cost of running and insurance, etc. However not everyone looking at an FR-S will look at a 370Z because it is more expensive. People initially shopping for a Z can shop down if they think it's a good buy, but people looking for FR-S pricepoint car can't go up necessarily. Thus they aren't comparable.

That is what I said a few pages back. lol

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

I think you have it confused. The way I read his statement was that you could take a $3k dollar amount into a tC and still not even be close to those other cars in stock form. To which I thoroughly disagreed with.

When I'm talking about these prices, I'm not using my tC as an example. My tC has 5yrs of blood sweat and tears into it. I'm stating what I can do with a completely stock 2005-2010 tC and given $3k to mod it as a challenge to see how fast I could make it. I would source used parts totally and find deals just like I did for mine. And for $3k bucks, it would run deep into the 12's in the 1/4 mile, and blaze around the track with a competent driver behind the wheel.

Only a few things on my car are used. Tein SS are used, LSD was bought from an individual along with a TRD clutch, but those were not used, he just sold them for cheaper ($800 for the set). My wing is an APR GT200 wing. Those cost roughly $1k and I bought mine from Chris Rado for $340.

Everything else is new. That was including my old turbo setup that I sold. My new turbo setup that I'm about to drop in also new. My Carbon exterior bought with insurance money from when my wife had an accident. Instead of giving that to a body shop to return it to stock, I bought carbon replacements and installed them myself (still need to replace my upper radiator support, but it's not biggie at the moment). So, my tC may "LOOK" expensive, but it's more just means of being "Resourceful".

Kuhmo V710's are 225/45/17 I'm currently running on the stock wheels. That will change to 285 or 295/35/17's once I get my new wheels (also used set of wheels with 295 slicks mounted to them). It's a $6k dollar whee/tire combo I'm getting for $1500. The slicks are Hoosiers, not sure how much life is left in them, but I'll find out. 295 is wide but just right for the "used" widebody I'm about to put on it. The widebody is track tested and built, it's not off the shelf. That's why it's used.

It's amazing what you can get from bonified Race shops when they aren't using those parts anymore.... A race shop with custom fabricated parts are just as good as any brand new off the shelf item and perhaps better than any new off the shelf item. I will gladly take a used race proven and track test part over an off the shelf item I have to customize for greater track duty abuse.

Turbo kit can be had for as cheap as $1k for a Great branded kit from people selling in the classifieds.

As an example, here is a completely professionally done kit running a freaking GT3076R for $2k.

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200980

Now imagine a kit not as stellar but still decent enough to sustain 300+whp/tq.

($1300 bucks, this is exactly what my old turbo setup was)
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193754

And that would put you easily into the 12sec 1/4 mile times (I was trapping 110mph on that kit at 9-9.5lbs of boost)

V710s are $740 shipped to me for the size I am currently running. Again, I can run a street tire and still only lose a few seconds out of them, but still be faster than any of the stock versions of those cars listed. When I said a 400whp WRX to keep up with me, I was speaking in terms of straight line speed. Around the track, I couldn't tell you as I have only gone up against an STI at the track with me NOT on boost. He came up to me later and asked what I had under the hood. Of course my answer was "stock".

we could go that route with any car. there are cars costing $2010 running 10s in the grm challenges. while the tc is decent, lets not act like its better than the z or wrx or ms3 or mustang...also how much does that wing help? i was thinking about one for the miata i i ever go forced induction. im curious to see the benefits to a fwd car of a giant gt wing

[fatoni]

also, you realize a widebody and what im assuming is a fucked offset is going to change your wheel rates and change the effectiveness of all the suspension youve dialed in. tein built the coilovers for a specific set of suspension geometries and you are going to change it all