Direct Injector Leaking

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by 2forme

Please tell me you rubbed it in the face of the service manager and filed a complaint with SoA to get a refund. I think someone should take this to Jalopnik or Autoblog or something. That would DEFINITELY get their attention.

Seriously. Subaru has been given enough time to at least acknowledge the issue via TSB and at least let people know they're working on a fix if one is not available already.

Instead, each time someone brings in another car demonstrating the same symptoms they insist on playing dumb and acting like they've never heard of this issue and it couldn't possibly be a design or manufacturing defect. You must just not know how to drive. Right, Subaru? If they won't pay attention to their customers, I'm betting they'll pay attention to the press.

Hell, I don't even have the issue and seeing Subaru's response is infuriating to me, so I can't imagine how bad it must be for you guys dealing with it.

[vgi]

Originally Posted by topazsparrow

I don't think this is the best course of action unless productive negotiations fall through.

Generating bad press over this issue isn't going to help anyone at this point in time. Hopefully with productive discussions, subaru / toyota will come to their senses about this potentially serious issue.

it looks like so far they've been unwilling to do "productive negotiations".

the bad press on the other hand it seems does miracles. just look at what 'unintentional acceleration' nose in press did even though it might have been due to dummy drivers.

as this is a potential safety concern i'm thinking a complaint could be filed with National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, now those guys could definitely get toyota and subaru's attention.

i want this problem gone before I shell $$$ on any mods as i was hoping for the price of Z to have a lightweight balanced big green maker

[ft_sjo]

OEM's prioritise fixes based on how much the issue is costing the company each month. They'll have a top 10 worst offenders which will get the most focus and other stuff will happen some time later.

I doubt this particular issue is high on their radar. The more people who report it to their dealership the faster it'll move up the pile.

[Bg8780]

I've had the firecracker popping noise 4 times in the past 2 months. No CEL yet, should I take the car into the dealership or is that a waste of my time? It seems like they will do nothing about even though I could provide them with mutiple threads and examples of this issue leading to engine failure.

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by Bg8780

I've had the firecracker popping noise 4 times in the past 2 months. No CEL yet, should I take the car into the dealership or is that a waste of my time? It seems like they will do nothing about even though I could provide them with mutiple threads and examples of this issue leading to engine failure.

Unless you have an actual issue or a CEL for the dealer to analyze, it'll be a waste of your time.

As for getting this on Subaru and Toyota's radar - until more stock cars start showing up at the dealers with these issues and they can't blame it on excessive driving conditions/track use/aftermarket mods, this won't get any attention.

[romin]

Originally Posted by Stevo22

More details please....
1. Why would Subaru not pull them (no CEL)?
2. How many miles on your engine?
3. Did you just do it to check or could you hear an audible knock?
4. Anything else you think is important that we should know

First Subaru said there wasn't an issue.
Even after showing them the Toyota tech bulletin they said there still wasn't an issue and all of my problems were mod related.

7000 miles on the engine.

I could hear a popping sound on cold engine start.
Also had CEL 0351 before changing the coils - on my dime as well.
Dealer refused to replace the coils even with a CEL present.

From this I learned a few things:

These seals are very hard to replace without damaging them even when using the "special tools".
If you order a new injector they come with factory installed seals.
I therefore believe many of the technicians are damaging the new seals during warranty replacement which later results in another failure.
The "we're ordering you new special improved injectors" trick is just to avoid the manual seal replacement. They can just unwrap and plug them in.
I didn't see any difference in the seal on the ordered injector and the seals provided via Subaru parts.

[romin]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

@romin, what did you do to clean and prep the seal seat area on the head when you replaced the injector / seal? With that much carbon on the injector i would imagine the seat area is nasty with build up as well..........

Tried carburetor cleaner but the pitting was too severe.
Subaru says to not uses anything abrasive to clean the injector so we just tossed it and dropping in a new one.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by romin

First Subaru said there wasn't an issue.
Even after showing them the Toyota tech bulletin they said there still wasn't an issue and all of my problems were mod related.

7000 miles on the engine.

I could hear a popping sound on cold engine start.
Also had CEL 0351 before changing the coils - on my dime as well.
Dealer refused to replace the coils even with a CEL present.

From this I learned a few things:

These seals are very hard to replace without damaging them even when using the "special tools".
If you order a new injector they come with factory installed seals.
I therefore believe many of the technicians are damaging the new seals during warranty replacement which later results in another failure.
The "we're ordering you new special improved injectors" trick is just to avoid the manual seal replacement. They can just unwrap and plug them in.
I didn't see any difference in the seal on the ordered injector and the seals provided via Subaru parts.

What, if any, powertrain mods did you have?

[romin]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

What, if any, powertrain mods did you have?

High flow cat front pipe.
Over pipe
Cat back
Silicon intake tube
Noise generator delete
Okada coils - because the stock ones failed.
Visconti Tune

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by romin

High flow cat front pipe.
Over pipe
Cat back
Silicon intake tube
Noise generator delete
Okada coils - because the stock ones failed.
Visconti Tune

stock coils failed? how'd that happen?

did they know about the tune?

[2forme]

Originally Posted by romin

Tried carburetor cleaner but the pitting was too severe.
Subaru says to not uses anything abrasive to clean the injector so we just tossed it and dropping in a new one.

Any chance you could save the bad injector? I think my friend would be interested in taking it off your hands for his fight with Subaru. LOL

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by romin

High flow cat front pipe.
Over pipe
Cat back
Silicon intake tube
Noise generator delete
Okada coils - because the stock ones failed.
Visconti Tune

IMO, the mods in bold could be used as grounds for warranty denial...

Reasoning:
- ECU parameters were altered by the tune; if a bad tune blew the engine, would the manufacturer still be held responsible? Or the tuner?
- Overpipe/HFC - alters the exhaust side flow, possibly throwing the operating parameters out of whack.

Just playing devil's advocate here; the burden is always on the manufacturer to PROVE the mods caused the failures...

[2forme]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

- Overpipe/HFC - alters the exhaust side flow, possibly throwing the operating parameters out of whack.

I think if the stock tuning was so far up against the seal damaging threshold where the mere flow improvement of the exhaust stream beyond the primary cat and o2 sensors would cause conditions for failure, then we would definitely see this problem manifest itself a LOT more. There are environment conditions that would directly impact the same exhaust flow, even while completely OEM, such as air density.

[romin]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

IMO, the mods in bold could be used as grounds for warranty denial...

Reasoning:
- ECU parameters were altered by the tune; if a bad tune blew the engine, would the manufacturer still be held responsible? Or the tuner?
- Overpipe/HFC - alters the exhaust side flow, possibly throwing the operating parameters out of whack.

Just playing devil's advocate here; the burden is always on the manufacturer to PROVE the mods caused the failures...

For me the issue started with the CEL 0351 and the popping sound coming from my intake under low rpm loads. At the time I only had a cat back installed and the tune. Dealer trip #1.

The CEL forced me to upgrade my coils. After doing so the CEL and the popping sounds went away but I started to have a knocking sound on cold start as well. At this point I had the over and front pipes installed as well. Dealer trip #2.

What's pissing me off is they know there's a problem.
They know the problem is happening on stock vehicles so regardless of what I have on my particular vehicle they should fix all of the known problems.

If I'm the only one having the issue then sure I'll walk away and fix it myself but to sit there an tell me there is no known problems and force me do all of the analysis, tool purchases, and experimentation to get the seals to mate properly really chaps me. They won't even provide the SW upgrade to make sure this doesn't happen again.