Need some advice on driving 6MT

[thill]

Originally Posted by Ryuu0u

This is my first manual car also and i'm doing decent so far. Just one question. Traffic on a huge hill oh my way home from work. How the hell do you manage that? I've managed it on a motorcyle but that was using the rear brake to keep from rolling back but. Not entirely sure how to handle it in a car.

You need to find the sweet spot between the clutch and the gas. Practice on some hills where there is nobody else. Once you know how much gas to apply as you slowly let the clutch out you will be able to go up a massive hill in traffic with little to no rollback. I do it all the time on snow

But you need to practice this with no traffic until you find the comfort zone. Waiting to do it in traffic is just too stressful.

[Ryuu0u]

^^I assume using the ebrake to keep you from rolling back? I was thinking about just keeping the clutch and gas at the point that keeps me from rolling back but that would be roasting the clutch.

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by Ryuu0u

This is my first manual car also and i'm doing decent so far. Just one question. Traffic on a huge hill oh my way home from work. How the hell do you manage that? I've managed it on a motorcyle but that was using the rear brake to keep from rolling back but. Not entirely sure how to handle it in a car.

Easy... best trick is to have the clutch at an engagement point where the clutch slips enough for the car not to stall, but you still see the revs drop... then switch to the gas pedal as fast as possible an accelerate... or use the handbrake...


my suggestion is go to steep deserted hill and practice getting the car still with just gas and clutch (this is bad for the clutch if you do it all the time) but it teaches you the perfect engagement point for hills...

[forzajuve]

-_________________-

[naikaidriver]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

I should have said I picked up heal toe easily rather than mastered... meh... English is my second language...

Its no problem. I've lived much of my life overseas where English is NOT the primary language so I completely understand.

Scott

[thill]

Originally Posted by Ryuu0u

^^I assume using the ebrake to keep you from rolling back? I was thinking about just keeping the clutch and gas at the point that keeps me from rolling back but that would be roasting the clutch.

I don't use the ebrake. But I have been driving a manual since 1988

Find some small hills and start small then work your way up to a larger hill. It is all about pedal feel and muscle memory. After some practice you will start to feel when to apply more gas and let the clutch out more. You won't roast the clutch, but start off small and work your way up to a larger hill.

[chillywilly]

I'm really surprised how often the recommendation of "dude, learn how to heel-toe" comes up in this forum. It is a shifting technique used for extremely aggressive driving that involves controlling all three gas, clutch and break pedals at the same time. There is absolutely no need for that in normal day to day driving.

Rev matching on the other hand is important to learn because it reduces wear on the clutch, reduces stress on the engine & transmission and it makes the ride less jerky. Rev matching is about matching 3 variables, engine speed, vehicle speed and gear. Two things can happen if these three variables are too far out of sync: 1) engine speed is too low for vehicle speed and gear, the car loses momentum to drive the engine up to speed and passengers jerk forwards. 2) engine speed is too high for vehicle speed and gear, the car accelerates (possibly spin some tires), passengers are thrown back in their seats. Typically you only have to worry about rev matching during downshifts and you can skip gears all you want as long as you rev match properly.

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

Easy... best trick is to have the clutch at an engagement point where the clutch slips enough for the car not to stall, but you still see the revs drop... then switch to the gas pedal as fast as possible an accelerate... or use the handbrake...


my suggestion is go to steep deserted hill and practice getting the car still with just gas and clutch (this is bad for the clutch if you do it all the time) but it teaches you the perfect engagement point for hills...

This is the Best Technique. Get the Clutch to slip slightly, when you release break pedal, get on Gas Immediately depend on how steep the hill is, together with releasing your clutch

[Lauren]

This is undoubtedly more advanced in regard to technique. However, I wrote this article back in 2003, it's been published in a few club mags in it's time:


Driving Techniques 2: Heel and Toeing

When driving on-track and equally on the road there are always tips and tricks you can learn. Often mentioned but not always well understood is that of heel and toeing. Before I explain what it is I am going to mention the benefits and the reasons behind it. This technique is aimed at keeping the car on the smoothest possible transition from braking before the corner onto corner entry. It’s main aim is to help maintain the balance of the car whilst simultaneously allowing maximum braking.

What heel and toeing is, is essentially a ‘blip’ of the throttle to match engine revs whilst changing down a gear and braking. All at the same time of course! Sounds difficult, but with a bit of practice, not only do you get round corners more quickly, but you are also much kinder to your car’s gearbox, clutch and engine.

Probably the easiest way to explain it is to take you through a virtual corner. So here I am approaching Redgate at Donington. I’m in 4th gear at around 105mph or so. To take the corner I need to reduce my speed to 60mph and be in 3rd gear. I am still accelerating as I am approaching the corner. At the braking point I put the brakes on very hard to slow down in as short a time as possible. Now, timing is key to doing this well. As my speed drops just below 75mph I push the clutch down and change into 3rd. before I let the clutch up, I roll my right foot (which is still on the brake) and turn it slightly anti-clockwise to ‘blip’ the throttle. This sends the engine revs up and as I let the clutch out the engine speed matches the road speed in that gear. Next I turn-in to the corner and get back on the power easing the throttle on to balance the car for the exit of the corner. Two main advantages here; firstly the car hasn’t been unbalanced by me changing gear and braking. Secondly the net result is that I’m on the power earlier and everything is that much smoother.

So what happens if I don’t heel and toe? Well I enter the braking zone, brake hard, then as the speed drops I change down and as I let the clutch up the engine revs suddenly soar, which in turn unbalances the car as the rear goes light and I have to deal with all this before I turn into the corner!

A year ago at Bentwaters I experimented with not heel and toeing at a tight left hand corner. It was a second gear corner and I found that if I didn’t heel and toe I actually locked the rear wheels as the clutch came up!

So in effect when you heel and toe you are pressing the brake and accelerator at the same time. This is the trickiest bit by far, how to maintain consistent even braking and in the middle of it blip the throttle? As I described earlier, I like to roll the outside of my right foot onto the throttle. This is certainly the way to do it with the most feel. But if you have standard pedals then you may find they are too far apart to do this easily. I have a Sparco pedal set in my car for good reason and that is to put the accelerator and brake closer together so that I can roll my (narrow) feet more easily.

If I’m driving a friend’s car I use the ‘other’ way. Literally use the ball of your feet to press the brake and kick the accelerator with your heel. It’s less easy to keep a constant pressure on the brake doing it this way, but it gives the same results as rolling your foot. It may be less exact but it works just as well.

One of the best things about heel and toeing is that you can practice it every time you drive your car on the road. Please remember though that the first few times you try it make sure no-one is in front of you. Try it at slow speeds on a quiet road. Cruise along in 4th then try the technique going into 3rd. Better still simply sit in your car and look at your right foot on the brake pedal see how you can push the brake and hit the throttle as you do it. Make sure that your foot is in no danger of slipping off the brake. I was practising this a few years ago and tried it approaching a roundabout. I wasn’t going overly fast but my foot slipped right off the brake and I had to get on the brakes pretty quick to stop in time! So be careful!

Lastly, in order to help heel and toeing, think about getting a pedal set. You can buy a funky Sparco Aluminium set for under £20. Make sure it is a ‘bolt on’ set and not one that clamps over the existing pedals. What you need to do is to take the rubbers off the brake and clutch and drill through the remaining metal pedal. Then it’s a matter of bolting the pedal cover to the pedal. Make sure that the brake pedal cover is absolutely secure. You don’t want this to come loose! By law there is supposed to be 50mm between the brake and accelerator. It’s very much up to you if you keep to this. You’re unlikely to get prosecuted if they are closer than this distance and you would be pretty unlucky to fail an MOT because of it.

To heel and toe well and to drive well, you need to have the maximum feel through the pedals as possible. A lot of people drive in trainers and while this may be comfortable, because of the thickness of the sole it literally robs you of feel and feedback through the pedals. Okay the clutch isn’t all that important but the accelerator and brake certainly are. Try to wear as thin soled shoes as possible. Best is of course racing boots as they are designed solely for this purpose. They do cost, but in my opinion they are worth it. Expect to pay around £30 or so for ‘clubman style boots’. FIA approved nomex boots start around £60 plus.

Lauren

[Ryuu0u]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

This is the Best Technique. Get the Clutch to slip slightly, when you release break pedal, get on Gas Immediately depend on how steep the hill is, together with releasing your clutch

Yeah i guess it's just getting used to that engagement point with the clutch. I usually like to roll back and forth on small inclines like how I used to do on my bike and that's how I got familiar with hill starts on that thing.

[chillywilly]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

- Leave it in gear when cruising off throttle. Only take it out of gear when you need to (to prevent stalling). There is no advantage to taking it out of gear when moving and you'd be doing more harm than good.

I usually cruise in gear too, I use the highest possible gear without stalling because the higher the engine speed, the faster it will bleed off your momentum. Cruising in gear allows the momentum of the car carry the engine and during that time the engine doe not use any fuel, good for fuel economy.

There is also nothing wrong with cruising in neutral. While cruising in neutral, your engine goes back to idle speed around 600rpm just using sips of fuel to maintain it at idle as if you were stopped at a light. But since the wheels are no longer driving the engine, it can coast for 2-3 times the distance. It is useful if you are carrying a lot of speed but sees a red light a block away and you know from experience that coasting in gear won't get you to the next light.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by chillywilly

I usually cruise in gear too, I use the highest possible gear without stalling because the higher the engine speed, the faster it will bleed off your momentum. Cruising in gear allows the momentum of the car carry the engine and during that time the engine doe not use any fuel, good for fuel economy.

There is also nothing wrong with cruising in neutral. While cruising in neutral, your engine goes back to idle speed around 600rpm just using sips of fuel to maintain it at idle as if you were stopped at a light. But since the wheels are no longer driving the engine, it can coast for 2-3 times the distance. It is useful if you are carrying a lot of speed but sees a red light a block away and you know from experience that coasting in gear won't get you to the next light.

Yeah, that's my reasons in relation to fuel economy but I also factor in other things like having to put it back into gear when you need to accelerate again which will waste time. Plus, it will cause more wear overtime since you're going in and out of gear and slipping the clutch back up to speed as opposed to just leaving it in gear and in sync.

And for some reason it just really bugs me when people do this. I get nervous just coasting around in neutral - I need to feel connected to the drivetrain.

[Wattage]

I learned manual on this car. I wouldnt call myself an expert, probably more like just slightly above novice.

Forget about heel toe. Dont even think about it at this stage. I know how to do it in theory but ive never tried, i see no reason to and im not confident in my skill level to do it.

Rev matching is a different story, i think this should be learned early on. It isnt complicated, its very simple, and its good for your clutch and drivetrain.

[Takuro]

Heel and toe isn't necessary for daily driving. The reason people should do it is for performance driving. You want to be at a HIGH RPM (aka in the powerband) before entering a corner after braking which is the whole purpose of having to hit the throttle while braking and clutching.

I might be wrong, but for daily driving, you can even just put it into a lower gear after braking without any throttle input as long as you slowed down enough where your RPM will be between 1-2k after you shift into the gear you want. Just let off the clutch smoothly and the engine and transmission will match the speed. It's somewhat similar to upshifting in that you don't hit the throttle when shifting.