Has anyone had a warranty claim denied? Seized engine! Pics of teardown added 6/5

[Marrk]

I keep starting posts to this thread, then deleting them. You guys are having so much fun that I hate to lie down in front of your parade. However, just in terms of the so-called real world (and not the argumentative world of "advertising copy vs. warranty wording"):

1) It's a road car. The track is not the road.

2) You're pissed because you feel you're entitled to a second free engine replacement? How much goodwill does any OEM owe you?

3) It's the first model year. Did anyone older than twelve expect that there would be no problems?

I hope the OP gets everything he wants. I hope everyone here gets everything they want. But I don't see that the OP is in a really strong position to argue on this one.

:happy0180:

[bakerr6]

Originally Posted by Marrk

I keep starting posts to this thread, then deleting them. You guys are having so much fun that I hate to lie down in front of your parade. However, just in terms of the so-called real world (and not the argumentative world of "advertising copy vs. warranty wording"):

1) It's a road car. The track is not the road.

2) You're pissed because you feel you're entitled to a second free engine replacement? How much goodwill does any OEM owe you?

3) It's the first model year. Did anyone older than twelve expect that there would be no problems?

I hope the OP gets everything he wants. I hope everyone here gets everything they want. But I don't see that the OP is in a really strong position to argue on this one.

:happy0180:

A couple things to keep in mind here. Most track surfaces are comparable to normal roads. There is nowhere in the manual that says you must maintain a speed and driving characteristic below X number in order to comply with warranty standards.

Regardless if he drives it hard on the street or on the track should be a nil point.

[whtchocla7e]

I have little doubt that you can put a car through the same demanding conditions - encountered at a track - on the road, without racing. A long spirited drive. The car is pushed but always within the limits. A lurking manufacturer defect rears its ugly head, that would never be discovered otherwise while driving day to day. What then?

What does it mean to drive within reasonable limits? There are no such limits explicitly spec'ed out in the manual.

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by whtchocla7e

What does it mean to drive within reasonable limits? There are no such limits explicitly spec'ed out in the manual.

Which is exactly where contra proferentem comes into play.

It basically says that when there is vagueness or ambiguity of a contract, or a term used in a contract, the preferred interpretation that should be used is the one that works against the party who provided the wording.

It's even been explicitly included in the California Civil Code §1654

In cases of uncertainty ... the language of a contract should be interpreted most strongly against the party who caused the uncertainty to exist

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by whtchocla7e

I have little doubt that you can put a car through the same demanding conditions - encountered at a track - on the road, without racing. A long spirited drive. The car is pushed but always within the limits. A lurking manufacturer defect rears its ugly head, that would never be discovered otherwise while driving day to day. What then?

What does it mean to drive within reasonable limits? There are no such limits explicitly spec'ed out in the manual.

i guess there would be some occasions where that is possible but on a track you are beating your car continuously in a manner that is rarely possible on the street. either way its being used as an excuse for a dealer to deny service

[Razz]

I never met anyone who went to the track regularly who didn't keep their car at Red line or into Red line all the time.

[robispec]

you need to meet me..lol.
I go to the dyno and shift a max peak WHP NA or MAX peak tq FI
NEITHER of these points happens with the car banging off the rev limiter...7K na 6.6K Subercharged.
I will hold a gear if a corner requires it but never got passed 7300 with my gearing changes.....

[GTM_Challenge]

From my experience, driving mountain roads spiritedly can cause more stress on drivetrain components and wear items that tracking can - thats a public road and street use, no racing. What if something happened in that context? If the car fails, do I have warranty coverage there?

[Frozen_skidmark]

Originally Posted by Frozen_skidmark

Take a look at the list people with the idle problem in this thread - and take a look at the amount of catastrophic engine failures. Obviously there is catastrophic problem with this engine, whether it's driving your ass to work or at autocross.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15577


In the mean time enjoy the Scion Racing page: where you can sign up to participate in racing events with your brand new Scion FRS! Yay!

http://www.scion.ca/scion/en/lifestyle/racing

or Scion Track Day at Shannonville Ontario: organized by hmmmm Scion, come try our cars at the track and then go buy one because they're awesome on a track.

http://www.scion.ca/scion/en/vehicle...ille-track-day

Read the Scion RACING AGREEMENT here:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/scion.site.p..._waiver_en.pdf


I would suggest some screen shots for future reference. Before these pages disappear.

I thought I'd repost my post since everyone is joining the Subaru sales team. Listen I understand where you think abusing the car a bit may put the onus on the driver, but let's face it... it's a sports car, not a frigging Prius.

If the wheels blew off your F150 because you put some gravel in the back of it wouldn't you be pissed off? There are certain expectations for certain vehicles. Especially if they are promoted that way. I have no sympathy for a company that uses examples of How fun it would be to go to the track, or burn your tires off, off the track in their advertising. They're all for padding their sales numbers, but when it comes to standing behind their sh*t, it's all sorry dude, read this fine print here.

There's a very documented and obvious problem with the injector seals and O-rings burning up and causing misfire, lean-out and catastrophic engine failure. Regardless of what you do with your car it's caused by a manufacturer design flaw and should be covered by warranty until they fix their friggin junk engine properly.

Don't cry like a little b*tch when the day comes where you have to pay for an engine out of pocket. Because apparently Subaru will only cover one then it's all your fault.

I'm glad i haven't bought mine yet. I'll definitely be going FRS.

[clayrush]

People keep talking about driving beyond the cars limits?
The rev limiter is the car's limit. DUH!!!!!
Anything short of miss shifting and below reline should be covered.
Hell Toyota even covered my Celica for a miss shift back when I was first learning to drive stick.
We should be able to run the car to reline from every dead stop or every time we get on the freeway.

[N_I_N]

I doubt the design of the FR-S is any different in that regard. Hopefully they stand behind the warranty better... (since I have a Scion)

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by GTM_Challenge

From my experience, driving mountain roads spiritedly can cause more stress on drivetrain components and wear items that tracking can - thats a public road and street use, no racing. What if something happened in that context? If the car fails, do I have warranty coverage there?

Yeah but the oem has videos of him racing and doing hard core driving events online. He has a vendor account to sell parts for track events. If it were not for this then it maybe different.

Now its on him to dispute it and legally its going to cost more than the engine rebuild to do so.

[civdaddy]

^^ And we have videos of subaru and scion tracking these cars too lol

[lsxiong]

This car is track ready. You "can" track this car in its stock form and it'll do pretty well. Do it at your own risk.

If/when I do have that misfiring/popping problem, I'm pretty sure they'll fix the problem under warranty because I do not track my car (yet, maybe after warranty expires at my own risk). There won't be "metal all over the place".

Not all tracked 86 will have this problem. Not all 86 will see the track.

Engine blows all the time, if you drive it "HARD". S2000 included; I know plenty of S2000, Celica GTS, etc on their 2nd motor. I'm pretty sure I can get the original motor to 150,000 with normal driving and the occasional canyon carving.

IMO if you're tracking your car, you are racing. Racing to improve your time. If Insurance won't cover you on a track, why should a warranty?