Stock In-Tank Fuel Filter Degradation

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

@Visconti has an STi on E85, no? I wonder if he's got one of these laying around?

Ya in my STi... Several years of e85 use

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by Visconti

I think we all need more data.

Great to see you have changed your position, we finally agree that there isn't enough data to claim it won't or will.

[xxscaxx]

Originally Posted by Visconti

Ya in my STi... Several years of e85 use

This is completely irrelevant if your STi doesn't have this same type of filter in its fuel pump assembly.

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by xxscaxx

This is completely irrelevant if your STi doesn't have this same type of filter in its fuel pump assembly.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/08-Subaru-Im...22d95a&vxp=mtr

Who wants to snag it and hack it open?

[regal]

Would it make since to remove this filter altogether and replace it with quality nylon inline filter post in-tank fuel pump, that way there would be no worries of cellulose (paper) breaking down and clogging the expensive DI pumps since whether it be E10 or E85 there is significant water absorption (hydroscopic fuel.)

Seems more and more like these cars weren't designed for fuel with ethanol levels we use in the sates. First the crickets no this. Finding an ethanol free pump gas station is completely impractical.

[Shankenstein]

Crickets were due to clearance issues surrounding the plunger in the HPFP. The pocket can fill with air, which causes a high pitched noise as it passes through the pump. No damage, just noise.

There's a Subaru TSB regarding it (v2 showed up early May). If there are crickets, they can now be fixed (supposedly) with the new part.

[jamesm]

wrx's may not have issues with it, but plenty of other cars do. some things take a while to show up (o-rings breaking down, lines being eaten up inside, etc).

the fact of the matter is even beyond this filter, no one here knows for sure either way whether it'll effect any part of the fuel system long term. it makes sense to think it will. it's not like toyobaru has any incentive to lie and say it isn't compatible when it is.

these cars just haven't been out long enough for anyone to know anything positively. everyone with e85 in their tank is a guinea pig at this point.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by jamesm

wrx's may not have issues with it, but plenty of other cars do. some things take a while to show up (o-rings breaking down, lines being eaten up inside, etc).

the fact of the matter is even beyond this filter, no one here knows for sure either way whether it'll effect any part of the fuel system long term. it makes sense to think it will. it's not like toyobaru has any incentive to lie and say it isn't compatible when it is.

these cars just haven't been out long enough for anyone to know anything positively. everyone with e85 in their tank is a guinea pig at this point.

I agree with your statement except the bold part. It's not that they lie, but there is no reason to say they are when the fuel maps made for the car are not compatible with E85. This is an affordable sportscar, not a flex fuel fuel economy sedan, so why waste effort, design and money on making a flex fuel map and market it as a fuel economy, environment friendly car?

Just a counterpoint, who knows you might even be absolutely correct.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

I agree with your statement except the bold part. It's not that they lie, but there is no reason to say they are when the fuel maps made for the car are not compatible with E85. This is an affordable sportscar, not a flex fuel fuel economy sedan, so why waste effort, design and money on making a flex fuel map and market it as a fuel economy, environment friendly car?

Just a counterpoint, who knows you might even be absolutely correct.

i agree.. it's iffy. it may make sense for them to not invest in whatever testing is required to claim compatibility, even if economies of scale dictate that all the same lines/o-rings/etc go into everything they make and are compatible throughout.

my main point is just that nobody knows. we're the blind leading the blind for atleast until enough experience is acquired to make an informed call.

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by s2d4

Great to see you have changed your position, we finally agree that there isn't enough data to claim it won't or will.

I haven't really.

Still don't think there's a problem, but it's effects everyone so worth investigating further.. Even if I get to say " told ya so" when all said and done

[xjohnx]

any updates?

[FReSh]

Someone should just buy one of the filters new and rig it up to a car battery in a big bucket of E-85 and let it run continuously for a month or two, then tear it open and see the results. Obviously, there would be more involved than just that due to pressure requirements or w/e, but it would be an interesting experiment. Maybe change the ethanol every week or two to help with the water absorption problem. I'd give it a shot, but I don't have the cash or space to try it...

[reeves]

I've been having a minor E85 startup issue, started a few weeks ago.
It now takes 2 cranks to startup my car (in warm weather) if I leave my car sitting for a whole day/night (9+ hours or longer).. still starts up fine on 93 octane though, I just tried it with 93 this week. Always 2 cranks on E85 though.. no more, no less.

Not saying this is at all related to to fuel filter/pump issue.. just thought I'd post in case anyone else had similar startup issues with E85. Temps rarely drop below 65-70 degrees in the mornings/evenings now, since May.

On a possibly related note.. these 3 CEL codes popped up last week too:

P0402 (current fault) - Catalyst system effeciency below threshold (* appeared by itself 3 weeks prior to this, but went away the next day)
P0463 (current fault) - Fuel Level sensor circuit high input
P0171 (pending fault) - System too lean (bank 1)

It happened while I was cruising lightly towards E85 station, with less than a gallon of gas left in the tank.. had to stepped on the brake kinda hard when someone pulled out in front of me. That's when the CEL lit up. Could've been because the car lurched forward with so little gas left in the tank (0.7 gallons according to Torque app), I might've ran lean for just a SPLIT second. Not really sure, but the CEL went away the next day.

[feldy]

I have gotten the p0171 code before on e85. It was due to running out of gas. I was draining the tank before refilling on 93 and just drained it to far. I cleared the code. Has not been back since.

Originally Posted by reeves

I've been having a minor E85 startup issue, started a few weeks ago.
It now takes 2 cranks to startup my car (in warm weather) if I leave my car sitting for a whole day/night (9+ hours or longer).. still starts up fine on 93 octane though, I just tried it with 93 this week. Always 2 cranks on E85 though.. no more, no less.

Not saying this is at all related to to fuel filter/pump issue.. just thought I'd post in case anyone else had similar startup issues with E85. Temps rarely drop below 65-70 degrees in the mornings/evenings now, since May.

On a possibly related note.. these 3 CEL codes popped up last week too:

P0402 (current fault) - Catalyst system effeciency below threshold (* appeared by itself 3 weeks prior to this, but went away the next day)
P0463 (current fault) - Fuel Level sensor circuit high input
P0171 (pending fault) - System too lean (bank 1)

It happened while I was cruising lightly towards E85 station, with less than a gallon of gas left in the tank.. had to stepped on the brake kinda hard when someone pulled out in front of me. That's when the CEL lit up. Could've been because the car lurched forward with so little gas left in the tank (0.7 gallons according to Torque app), I might've ran lean for just a SPLIT second. Not really sure, but the CEL went away the next day.