2014 C7 Chevrolet Corvette

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by swift996

They have some great technologies and engineering, just the wrong philosophy IMO. Only 74hp/liter because they still use push-rods.

Unless you are displacement-limited, hp/weight is what is important, not hp/liter. The LS engines and presumably the new LT1 have fantastic power/weight.

I also hope one day they ditch the leaf springs.

WHY? Before answering, study previous threads on this non-issue.

[swift996]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Unless you are displacement-limited, hp/weight is what is important, not hp/liter. The LS engines and presumably the new LT1 have fantastic power/weight.

WHY? Before answering, study previous threads on this non-issue.

Yeah I know they are actually light but to me 100hp/liter is the staple of a well engineered engine. They could make it a smaller car if they used a smaller engine. The vettes are a little big to me for a sports car. It's like the have some good innovations but stick to the old school principles. To each their own, I'm just not a fan. Flat out for the money, you can't buy better performance. I just never had a mullet and I drink imported beer

[Onealpha]

Thanks for posting the photo's. It looks like the GM guys from Cadillac were sent over to redesign the Corvette. Enjoy the Caddivette. Its not agreeing with me.

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by swift996

Yeah I know they are actually light but to me 100hp/liter is the staple of a well engineered engine. They could make it a smaller car if they used a smaller engine. The vettes are a little big to me for a sports car. It's like the have some good innovations but stick to the old school principles. To each their own, I'm just not a fan. Flat out for the money, you can't buy better performance. I just never had a mullet and I drink imported beer

Forget small grocery getter sports cars for a second here, let's talk world-class exotics and super sports vehicles. They generally have a long wheelbase and are just overall large cars for two seaters. Every time I see a Ferrari or Lamborghini around here I'm always amazed at just how wide the cars are.

As for the Vettes pictured, I'll take the red one, plzkthx.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by swift996

Yeah I know they are actually light but to me 100hp/liter is the staple of a well engineered engine.

B.S.
I can't state it often enough: power/WEIGHT is what is important. Small-displacement engines have an inherent power/liter advantage because they can more easily rev higher. But they have limited torque, which is also required to produce power.
Multicam/multivalve engines have an inherent power/liter advantage because they can breathe better. But particularly on V-engines, there is a big bulk and weight disadvantage (and the additional weight us up high as well).

For street cars with unlimited displacement, what qualifies TO ME as "well-engineered" is how much power you can get out of a small/lightweight package, with reliability and decent efficiency, at a reasonable price. The GM LS-engines are *very* well-engineered indeed vs. other performance car engines.

They could make it a smaller car if they used a smaller engine. The vettes are a little big to me for a sports car.

The engine is small and lightweight enough that it fits in an FD RX-7 and adds only 50 lb., while barely affecting weight distribution. Similar swaps with similar results into S2000s.

The Corvette is bigger than I like as well, but it's not the fault of the engine.

It's like the have some good innovations but stick to the old school principles.

The OHV cam-in-block V8 is a very elegant and effective real-world solution to making good power with good efficiency for minimum $$$ relative to throwing as many cams and valves as possible into the mix (which adds cost, adds weight up high, and hurts efficiency).

To each their own, I'm just not a fan. Flat out for the money, you can't buy better performance. I just never had a mullet and I drink imported beer

When I drink beer, Sam Adams is fine with me, NEVER liked the standard big-name domestics, especially Bud (AWFUL!). I did have a mullet, but hell even Bono did back then...

[7thgear]

When RoboCop and Optimus Prime have a child.

GM cars are starting to over-do it with the spaceship themes

[swift996]

Well the whole unlimited displacement thing is silly to me. For instance, you can't buy the car you see in the ALMS, Rolex Grand-Am, Pirelli WC, etc.

It doesn't use the same engine and it uses double wishbone suspension. I like my cars to be pretty close to what the company races with. 2.0L restrictions in racing is what drove some major improvements to engine performance. That's why most 2.0L on the market (for example) are pretty optimized.

Racing is going to require heavy modification but I like the core of the car to remain the same. The Compuware C6 is as far away from the production C6 as the BRZ GT300 car is from the BRZ. A Porsche GT3 Cup or GT3 RSR isn't too different from the production GT3.

[Superhatch]

Does the front end look VERY Ferrari to anyone else?

Kind of want, but seems like some weird kit car trying to be Italian.

[OrbitalEllipses]

400lb-ft torque at 3K rpm...

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by swift996

Well the whole unlimited displacement thing is silly to me. For instance, you can't buy the car you see in the ALMS, Rolex Grand-Am, Pirelli WC, etc.

Unless you're racing in those series, SO WHAT. The race engine is, what, 5.5 liters? Not a tremendously huge difference. More displacement is a lot better for a street engine, anyway.

It doesn't use the same engine and it uses double wishbone suspension.

???
You know that the Corvette has had double wishbones all around for, like, EVER now, don't you?

I like my cars to be pretty close to what the company races with. 2.0L restrictions in racing is what drove some major improvements to engine performance. That's why most 2.0L on the market (for example) are pretty optimized.

For WHAT? Not racing...

Racing is going to require heavy modification but I like the core of the car to remain the same. The Compuware C6 is as far away from the production C6 as the BRZ GT300 car is from the BRZ. A Porsche GT3 Cup or GT3 RSR isn't too different from the production GT3.

How do you know that when you don't even know what the stock suspension is on a Corvette?

[swift996]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Unless you're racing in those series, SO WHAT. The race engine is, what, 5.5 liters? Not a tremendously huge difference. More displacement is a lot better for a street engine, anyway.

???
You know that the Corvette has had double wishbones all around for, like, EVER now, don't you?

For WHAT? Not racing...



How do you know that when you don't even know what the stock suspension is on a Corvette?

When I said double wishbone, I was referring to their use of a strut and spring like everyone else in racing/production. However in production they still use their leaf design in the rear.

They can build a fast car for the street but when it comes to racing they have to make it look like the other guys to win/be competitive. I realize there are some rules that force them into smaller displacement (otherwise Ferrari/Porsche could run 33% more power).

I haven't even addressed the noise of the engine which sounds like a washed up 90s rock band yelling "yeahhhhh." Also the throw in the shifter feels like walking around with the lights off trying to find the light switch.

For every clever idea they have (rear-axle mounted transmission) it's offset by poor choices from my perspective (4 mid mounted exhaust tips).

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by swift996

Racing is going to require heavy modification but I like the core of the car to remain the same. The Compuware C6 is as far away from the production C6 as the BRZ GT300 car is from the BRZ. A Porsche GT3 Cup or GT3 RSR isn't too different from the production GT3.

The C5 and C6 Z06 are just about the best performing and most economical stock track cars that you can get. Just add safety equipment, tires and go. So sayeth Grassroots Motorsports Magazine. They will be saying the same about the C7 in a couple years.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by swift996

When I said double wishbone, I was referring to their use of a strut and spring like everyone else in racing/production.

Why not say what you mean?!

However in production they still use their leaf design in the rear.

And they use a leaf spring in the front as well. You really don't know much about these cars, do you...

They can build a fast car for the street but when it comes to racing they have to make it look like the other guys to win/be competitive.

There are good reasons why coilovers spring/dampers are better in racing, primarily because they are easier to change out for different tracks and different conditions and it's easier to corner-weight and adjust ride height. Leaf springs are superior if you aren't going to be changing springs out because they take up less space, weigh less, are lower in the car, and are mounted such that they perform some additional anti-roll which allows for smaller sway bars.

There's a whole other thread that went well into the leaf springs, you should look it up and LEARN.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...spring&page=12
Post #310 definitely worth looking at...

I haven't even addressed the noise of the engine which sounds like a washed up 90s rock band yelling "yeahhhhh."

Subjective. An LS engine at 7000rpm sounds pretty freaking sweet to me, and also to the rotary guys I was tracking with at VIR last Monday.

Also the throw in the shifter feels like walking around with the lights off trying to find the light switch.

A trans built to handle about 3x the torque isn't going to have S2000 or FR-S/BRZ snickety snick shifting, that's for sure... A weak point, granted, but there are shorter-throw kits available that decrease throw and increase precision at the expense of effort.

For every clever idea they have (rear-axle mounted transmission)

Actually, I don't like that idea so much. It actually resulted in moving the c.g. *forward* due to moving the rear wheels aft. They did it for stiffness reasons, not weight distribution. If the engineers had been allowed to make it a fixed-roof car the trans wouldn't have moved back in the C5.

it's offset by poor choices from my perspective (4 mid mounted exhaust tips).

Geez, that seems a pretty minor thing to gripe about, and again, subjective.

[Sonolin]

Good to see some 'vette lovers on this forum

Learn something knew every day, I always wondered why the leaf springs.