CSG Mike's observations on dampers/coilovers

[GTB/ZR-1]

Oh... Singles right now--and very pleased w/ the simplicity.

I had JRZ Triples on my GT-R & was chasing my tail a bunch on setup.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

When people say 65% critically damped...generally this means it is 65% critically damped in the low speed range (0-2 inch per second or so) for rebound and compression. It may be higher or lower in the high speed range. It isn't necessarily the same throughout (it rarely is honestly).

Some like a little higher than 65% for low speed piston velocity and then closer to 65% in the higher speed range. Some like 65% for low speed and 50% for high speed piston velocities.

I'm all about theory as a starting point but to me it is a starting point. Not a hard and fast rule. Calibrated butt dynos are excellent tools. Feel, driver preference, and driver confidence can be very important too...and sometimes drivers adapt and end up faster. But I do really like having a starting point over a wild-ass guess.

Bottom line and this is what I think CSG Mike was getting at: sometimes we see numbers way beyond or way below what they should be and that's a problem. Get near 65% in the low speed range and you're at least close.

- Andy

Disclaimer: I am not a shock engineer and I defer to others often. I just try really really hard to learn from them. It hurts my brain too sometimes.

Andy & Mike, I can assure you, even in high dollar instrumentation & control systems, the theory is only used to get in the ball park. Even completely scraping and replacing the propulsion control systems (read; balancing lots of stuff to control shaft speed even in rough seas, boiler conditions, and main engine conditions) on a Navy ship, the parts are picked from a catalog, they are calibrated on a bench to ideal values, then they are installed. This is where the actual work starts. The parts are then tuned to work together and finally the ship goes to sea and the final tuning is done based on real world performance. Normally some pretty outrageous values are determined to give the correct results. Mind you, there was one lube oil cooling system I could never get the constant amplitude decay out of. I just couldn't put enough damping into the error signal...

TL;DR, I understand the need for the butt dyno. In a lot of cases it's actually the most accurate way to go.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Calum

TL;DR, I understand the need for the butt dyno. In a lot of cases it's actually the most accurate way to go.

I know rednecks that are more accurate than torque wrenches...

[RYU]

going to put you on the spot here Mike. hope you don't mind

1. regardless of value, what's the best street compliant setup you've been on. Something that rides as good or better than stock but allows for some height adjustability (+- 30mm)

2. now talking value.., what's the best value oriented setup you've been on with the same criteria as above?

Thanks

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by RYU

going to put you on the spot here Mike. hope you don't mind

1. regardless of value, what's the best street compliant setup you've been on. Something that rides as good or better than stock but allows for some height adjustability (+- 30mm)

2. now talking value.., what's the best value oriented setup you've been on with the same criteria as above?

Thanks

30mm? Does not exist with that kind of compliance. Actually, I lied. Take the stock suspension, re-mount it 30mm higher, and do the appropriate geometry correction. Paging @robispec for the geometry correction. Then it'll ride like stock, be as compliant as stock, but be 30mm lower.

Value oriented? Value is subjective. I'll pay a premium for good dampers, and have spent the dollars. Others, not so much. Everyone wants to defending their choice of suspension, but the majority have never experienced anything that's seriously good.

I am a bit jealous of @ImperiousRex's setup... especially after dialing it in this weekend. Every time I dial in one of those, it's super easy. Don't have to keep going back and forth to try to find the best compromise between settings; I can just set it the way it needs to be set on the first go.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

30mm? Does not exist with that kind of compliance. Actually, I lied. Take the stock suspension, re-mount it 30mm higher, and do the appropriate geometry correction. Paging @robispec for the geometry correction. Then it'll ride like stock, be as compliant as stock, but be 30mm lower.

Value oriented? Value is subjective. I'll pay a premium for good dampers, and have spent the dollars. Others, not so much. Everyone wants to defending their choice of suspension, but the majority have never experienced anything that's seriously good.

I am a bit jealous of @ImperiousRex's setup... especially after dialing it in this weekend. Every time I dial in one of those, it's super easy. Don't have to keep going back and forth to try to find the best compromise between settings; I can just set it the way it needs to be set on the first go.

Wow, deflection and redirection all in one answer. I'm not sure if you should be a politician or write for Penn & Teller.

Everyone keeps expecting this thread to turn to people justifying their setup, after having never driven anything else. So, here goes. I went with RCE and stock dampers, and here's why. My FRS even on the stock tires was way too bumpstoptastic. This destroyed my confidence while pushing the car. So, given that my car is a DD, I wanted to stiffing up the front end a bunch, without destroying the ride or the factory dampers, and without going too low that I had to worry about what I was driving over. After looking around, RCE's seemed right for what I wanted.

I wanted to stick with the stock dampers because I'm waiting for Bilstein to come out with a non adjustable, drop in damper setup. Something that I can get rebuilt locally and I don't have to worry about adjusting. Again, it's a DD, I just want it to work.

Finally, I figured if I found the car pushed too much with the RCE's there's plenty of sway bar options to chose from, I could tune the nature of the car with them.

Now, please critique.

[RYU]

Originally Posted by RYU

going to put you on the spot here Mike. hope you don't mind

1. regardless of value, what's the best street compliant setup you've been on. Something that rides as good or better than stock but allows for some height adjustability (+- 30mm)

2. now talking value.., what's the best value oriented setup you've been on with the same criteria as above?

Thanks

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

30mm? Does not exist with that kind of compliance. Actually, I lied. Take the stock suspension, re-mount it 30mm higher, and do the appropriate geometry correction. Paging @robispec for the geometry correction. Then it'll ride like stock, be as compliant as stock, but be 30mm lower.

Value oriented? Value is subjective. I'll pay a premium for good dampers, and have spent the dollars. Others, not so much. Everyone wants to defending their choice of suspension, but the majority have never experienced anything that's seriously good.

I am a bit jealous of @ImperiousRex's setup... especially after dialing it in this weekend. Every time I dial in one of those, it's super easy. Don't have to keep going back and forth to try to find the best compromise between settings; I can just set it the way it needs to be set on the first go.

darn typo. I meant to say 20mm. No biggie. I already know how you're going to answer

I know what you mean about the money thing. If I didn't already have 4 vehicles i'd spring for a top of the line set for the BRZ. This is my daily driver and backup track car so the budget is staying <$2k. If the other coilovers don't work out I guess it'll be RS*Rs for me; best compliant street ride i've been in thus far with some usable adjustment range for ~$17xx. Happy to hear more options if anyone can take a moment to PM me. TIA

[CSG Mike]

Holy grammar errors. Ooops, happens when I'm at work and get interrupted mid-post. haha

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Calum

Everyone keeps expecting this thread to turn to people justifying their setup, after having never driven anything else.

Dudebroman, my shit is awesome. It don't even stink! Srsly, it's the best. Nothing better. Even drove a stock FR-S, shit sucks!

[ayau]

I'm surprised the Tein SRCs weren't mentioned once in this thread.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ayau

I'm surprised the Tein SRCs weren't mentioned once in this thread.

If budget weren't an issue, we'd have Penskes on.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

If budget weren't an issue, we'd have Penskes on.

If engine weren't an issue you'd be driving?


Okay, enough blown engine jokes...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

If engine weren't an issue you'd be driving?


Okay, enough blown engine jokes...

[mikeTee]

Any thoughts on ST coilovers while running stock suspension everywhere else?