Is it bad to drive for short distances?

[slowbrz]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

This is bad advice.. Sorry to say.. Starting the car and letting it idle for 5 to 10 minutes causes more harm than good.. Because at idle when cold the engine is running rich and the engine is not under a load and will take LONGER to warm up allowing gas to dilute the oil. You should start the car and drive within seconds which warms it up quicker. Also oil temps are slow to follow coolant temps. It's takes another 15+ minutes for oil temps to come up under load.
Just drive the car to work as you need.. Take it out a couple times a week and drive it good! Change you oil more frequently, don't worry about this shit and enjoy your car.

I tend to drive my car as soon as the idle drops. This usually happens 45 seconds after I start the car.

[slowbrz]

Originally Posted by regal

with a 1 mile commute your car will be considered sever conditions, this is because the unburnt fuel in the crankcase doesn't get warm enough to evaporate thru the pcv. Best thing you can do is change the oil often (every 4 months) to prevent the fuel left in the crankcase from dissolving the gaskets. This was a very common issue with Subaru engines requiring a complete $3k teardown with less than 30k miles for folks with very short commutes.

I would start be doing an oil analysis every month and see how bad the situation is, with this engines very tight rig seal it may be fine.

Ideally a bike, an electric vehicle, or a very small 4 cylinder the heats up fast (Scion IQ) for the commute would be perfect for your situation.

Unfortunately Im getting a lot of different answers.. heck even people telling me this is a dumb question.

I wish only the people who knew what they are talking about would provide me information so that Im not misled.

[sho220]

Originally Posted by regal

with a 1 mile commute your car will be considered sever conditions, this is because the unburnt fuel in the crankcase doesn't get warm enough to evaporate thru the pcv. Best thing you can do is change the oil often (every 4 months) to prevent the fuel left in the crankcase from dissolving the gaskets. This was a very common issue with Subaru engines requiring a complete $3k teardown with less than 30k miles for folks with very short commutes.

I would start be doing an oil analysis every month and see how bad the situation is, with this engines very tight rig seal it may be fine.

Ideally a bike, an electric vehicle, or a very small 4 cylinder the heats up fast (Scion IQ) for the commute would be perfect for your situation.

Or you could read his original post (does anyone do that anymore?) which should make it obvious that your post is pointless...

Get an oil analysis every month? Even if he walks to work MOST of the time?

[Dake]

I'll be honest, I can't speak to the effects on the engine though they make a certain amount of laymen-logic sense.

What I can speak to from personal experience is your exhaust system may rust quicker. Have you ever noticed sitting at a stop light in the morning, the car in front of you has water pour out of the exhaust when they move forward? That's condensation which builds up and if you don't get everything good and hot to burn that out, it pools inside and will eventually cause components to corrode.

The personal experience comes from having to replace the exhaust multiple times on a shop truck (a Ford Ranger) that drove maybe 5k a year. It didn't appear to bother the mechanicals though.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by slowbrz

Unfortunately Im getting a lot of different answers.. heck even people telling me this is a dumb question.

I wish only the people who knew what they are talking about would provide me information so that Im not misled.

I understand. And I sympathize with you and all the others who come with questions, seeking to learn, and are met with numerous conflicting and contradictory explanations. How are you, a beginner, to know who's right?

It's a problem, isn't it?

It's annoying, to be sure, but you need to ignore the rude smart-alecks who disparage beginners for asking beginner questions. Far too many of today's youth are ill-bred, ill-mannered, losers who enjoy bullying others behind the anonymity of the Internet. Dismiss them.

There are quite a few like me out here. Look around, and you'll find us.

There are no dumb questions, okay?

Read back in my posting history to get an idea of whether I might be trusted to be one of those "who know what they're talking about." I've always striven to write genuinely helpful and instructive posts, elaborating sufficiently to provide the background for my reader to better understand the issues in question. You may even regard my past explanations as a veritable treasure trove of good information. If'n ah do say so mahownseff.

I also have a reasonably good handle on what I do NOT know. That comes with age and experience. You could be my grandkid, so...

For what it's worth:

Frequent short trips are, oddly enough, classified as harsh duty for an engine. Basically, this is so because the oil becomes contaminated from moisture accumulation, fuel blow-by, etc. And the engine never gets warmed up sufficiently to "boil off" these contaminants, so they build up.

So, see your maintenance manual and observe the harsh conditions schedule for service. Mainly, we're just talking about changing your oil more often.

Were I in your situation, I'd change my oil every 3000 miles or at least once yearly. Not because the oil has "broken down," but just to get the accumulated contaminants out.

Your engine will have more cold starts per miles traveled, but that's unavoidable. This might matter to the sixth owner heading towards 300,000 miles. Who knows? Who cares enough to test such things?

There's no reason to believe your driving conditions pose a particular problem, not so long as you change the oil more often.

One other thing: Do NOT, not EVER, drive your engine hard until the oil is up to operating temperature. It sure would be nice to have an oil temperature gauge, but we must make due without such things in this country. Oil temp typically takes TWICE as long to reach operating temps, and thus provide optimum lubrication, as does the coolant temperature, which is displayed on the water temp gauge. We're probably looking at about 10-12 minutes of DRIVING, not idling in your driveway which does not warm up an engine much at all. The engine needs some load to heat the oil, not just the coolant.

I bought a $7 Taylor kitchen timer, little bigger than a credit card, and keep it in our BRZ. I set mine to 12 minutes (I'm fussy, okay), start it when I pull out of my driveway. When it beeps, I begin taking my revs over 3000 and using more throttle, but not until then. Ten minutes is probably enough.

Otherwise, just reset one of your trip odometers, and after about 5 miles, or ten minutes of driving, your oil temp should be up to 180* F or more, and you're engine's ready to rev safely.

And that's about it, really.

Any questions?

If not, then promise not to look in this thread again, lest you become disoriented and confused again.

Enjoy that cool new car, avoid Enforcers when going fast, and stay safe.

[regal]

Originally Posted by sho220

Or you could read his original post (does anyone do that anymore?) which should make it obvious that your post is pointless...

Get an oil analysis every month? Even if he walks to work MOST of the time?

Yes at first, A car that sits and is only periodically driven 1 mile to work needs a few monthly oil analysis that will tell if there is significant fuel not being evaporated out thru the pvc.

[sho220]

Originally Posted by regal

Yes at first, A car that sits and is only periodically driven 1 mile to work needs a few monthly oil analysis that will tell if there is significant fuel not being evaporated out thru the pvc.

I would think he would drive it other places and not just the occasional one mile trip to work...

[regal]

Originally Posted by sho220

I would think he would drive it other places and not just the occasional one mile trip to work...

If he takes it out once a week and takes a nice aggressive drive he should be fine. But I know a lot of folks who live close to work and never do, there cars never last as many miles as the guys with 50 mile interstate commutes.

[MmmHamSandwich]

Originally Posted by regal

with a 1 mile commute your car will be considered sever conditions, this is because the unburnt fuel in the crankcase doesn't get warm enough to evaporate thru the pcv. Best thing you can do is change the oil often (every 4 months) to prevent the fuel left in the crankcase from dissolving the gaskets. This was a very common issue with Subaru engines requiring a complete $3k teardown with less than 30k miles for folks with very short commutes.

Correct. My dad had a very short commute to his office for several years with his 325i. Infrequent oil changes also probably didn't help. When his head gasket finally went out and we opened it up and there was a surprising amount of buildup around the pcv and all over the cam sprocket.

[sho220]

Originally Posted by regal

If he takes it out once a week and takes a nice aggressive drive he should be fine. But I know a lot of folks who live close to work and never do, there cars never last as many miles as the guys with 50 mile interstate commutes.

haha...I would gladly give up a little of my cars life for a 1 mile commute!!! The health benefit (mental and physical) alone would be worth it...

[Wo6M]

Lol wow I guess years of experience working with engines and cars , not to mention schooling and the fact that I work at a dealership must mean o give bad advise.
The car runs rich at start up untill

O2 reaches 600 degrees (it has a internal heating circuit to help)
Coolant temp reaches a certain voltage output.
Pre set time must pass

Those 3 things are what usually run open or closed loop.

Drive it as soon as its started?
Clearly you guys don't understand the dynamics of the cylinder walls.
When cold they are a bit oval shape , when fully warm they become much more round.
The engine had no load before you put it in gear. If you drive it right after starting you risk scoring the walls because of the engine load and engine not fully warm.

But do as you will . It's your car .

[slowbrz]

Originally Posted by Porsche

I understand. And I sympathize with you and all the others who come with questions, seeking to learn, and are met with numerous conflicting and contradictory explanations. How are you, a beginner, to know who's right?

It's a problem, isn't it?

It's annoying, to be sure, but you need to ignore the rude smart-alecks who disparage beginners for asking beginner questions. Far too many of today's youth are ill-bred, ill-mannered, losers who enjoy bullying others behind the anonymity of the Internet. Dismiss them.

There are quite a few like me out here. Look around, and you'll find us.

There are no dumb questions, okay?

Read back in my posting history to get an idea of whether I might be trusted to be one of those "who know what they're talking about." I've always striven to write genuinely helpful and instructive posts, elaborating sufficiently to provide the background for my reader to better understand the issues in question. You may even regard my past explanations as a veritable treasure trove of good information. If'n ah do say so mahownseff.

I also have a reasonably good handle on what I do NOT know. That comes with age and experience. You could be my grandkid, so...

For what it's worth:

Frequent short trips are, oddly enough, classified as harsh duty for an engine. Basically, this is so because the oil becomes contaminated from moisture accumulation, fuel blow-by, etc. And the engine never gets warmed up sufficiently to "boil off" these contaminants, so they build up.

So, see your maintenance manual and observe the harsh conditions schedule for service. Mainly, we're just talking about changing your oil more often.

Were I in your situation, I'd change my oil every 3000 miles or at least once yearly. Not because the oil has "broken down," but just to get the accumulated contaminants out.

Your engine will have more cold starts per miles traveled, but that's unavoidable. This might matter to the sixth owner heading towards 300,000 miles. Who knows? Who cares enough to test such things?

There's no reason to believe your driving conditions pose a particular problem, not so long as you change the oil more often.

One other thing: Do NOT, not EVER, drive your engine hard until the oil is up to operating temperature. It sure would be nice to have an oil temperature gauge, but we must make due without such things in this country. Oil temp typically takes TWICE as long to reach operating temps, and thus provide optimum lubrication, as does the coolant temperature, which is displayed on the water temp gauge. We're probably looking at about 10-12 minutes of DRIVING, not idling in your driveway which does not warm up an engine much at all. The engine needs some load to heat the oil, not just the coolant.

Considering the number of contradicting info Im getting, Id like to think this isn't a "beginner question"... unless the majority on this forum are beginners

I never rev my car beyond 4k during the first 10 minutes anyway so Im safe in that regard

Originally Posted by sho220

I would think he would drive it other places and not just the occasional one mile trip to work...

Originally Posted by regal

If he takes it out once a week and takes a nice aggressive drive he should be fine. But I know a lot of folks who live close to work and never do, there cars never last as many miles as the guys with 50 mile interstate commutes.

I will definitely be driving the car longer and harder during the weekends

[sho220]

Originally Posted by slowbrz

Considering the number of contradicting info Im getting, Id like to think this isn't a "beginner question"... unless the majority on this forum are beginners

I never rev my car beyond 4k during the first 10 minutes anyway so Im safe in that regard





I will definitely be driving the car longer and harder during the weekends

It's not a beginner question. It's a question that's been asked over and over again for the last hundred years...and you'll continue getting conflicting opinions for the next hundred years...

[Wo6M]

Originally Posted by Dake

I'll be honest, I can't speak to the effects on the engine though they make a certain amount of laymen-logic sense.

What I can speak to from personal experience is your exhaust system may rust quicker. Have you ever noticed sitting at a stop light in the morning, the car in front of you has water pour out of the exhaust when they move forward? That's condensation which builds up and if you don't get everything good and hot to burn that out, it pools inside and will eventually cause components to corrode.

The personal experience comes from having to replace the exhaust multiple times on a shop truck (a Ford Ranger) that drove maybe 5k a year. It didn't appear to bother the mechanicals though.

This is partially true, condensation sure but most of it is the side effect of Catalyst Efficiency.
The engine produces from combustion

O2
CO2
CO
HC(hydrocarbon aka gas)
NOx
The catalyst converts all these gasses in H2O by combining O2
with the other gasses IE O2 with HC dropping the C and adding the H equals H2O.
The catalyst is made up of platinum and puladium ( sorry I know its miss spelled)
Once heated up to 1200 degrees it begins its work.

If you want to know how effective your Cat is use a 5 gas analyzer

Note H2O , Co2 and O2 are the only gasses the EPA will allow into the atmosphere.