I think Toyota/Scion is making a BIG mistake with the FR-S' suspension tuning

[MiguelAE86]

You guys are arguing for nothing lol you do realize any kind of oversteer or dangerous situation happens with the TC OFF right? That's what these reviews are using. TC is off.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by MiguelAE86

You guys are arguing for nothing lol you do realize any kind of oversteer or dangerous situation happens with the TC OFF right? That's what these reviews are using. TC is off.

Everyone knows this in the thread but the thread is about people who will want to turn it off thinking they are a DK. Too all the people who are pros at not having your TC on how does it fare when the roads are wet and slippery? Do you turn it off?

[Deslock]

It's not like Scion would be stupid enough to make the FRS as twitchy as the AP1 S2k, which also didn't have traction control (for reference: the AP2 came out for MY2004 and traction control wasn't added until MY2006).

I'll reserve judgement until I test drive them (or at least hear Subaru's take on it), but my knee-jerk concern is why isn't Subaru also going for agility than stability?

[m_life]

I completely disagree about the suspension.

As said before me ALOT of manufactures set there FR cars up to understeer at the limit when they take the driver aids off so people who think they are god gift behind the wheel don't swap ends at every corner they come to.

What Toyota have done here is set the car up for real drivers. If you don't like the idea then may I suggest you get some time in with an instructor at a track or just leave the stability on.

[SL]

Originally Posted by m_life

What Toyota have done here is set the car up for real drivers. If you don't like the idea then may I suggest you get some time in with an instructor at a track or just leave the stability on.

this.

there shouldnt really be any issues anyway, this car is built for controllable fun.
its hardly an S2000 type handling car that will bite you in the arse.

[JDLM]

Originally Posted by Deslock

It's not like Scion would be stupid enough to make the FRS as twitchy as the AP1 S2k, which also didn't have traction control (for reference: the AP2 came out for MY2004 and traction control wasn't added until MY2006).

I'll reserve judgement until I test drive them (or at least hear Subaru's take on it), but my knee-jerk concern is why isn't Subaru also going for agility than stability?

Subaru is just trying to "make it their own" I don't see an issue with that. I would wait for actual "hard core" facts on spring rates etc.. before saying need to swap to one or the other everyone will want different things out of the cars

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Impey Barbicane

Now that first-drive reviews of the production version of the FR-S are coming in, I'm getting concerned about how they've calibrated the suspension. All the reviews state that it's tuned to be neutral, with a tendency to lift-throttle oversteer in a corner if the stability control is turned off.

Of course this is a fun setup if you know what you're doing, but for a generation raised on plowing front drivers (I.e. their target market), it's a recipe for lots of ugly crashes. Enter a corner too hot, start to slide, and the natural reaction for many will be to let off the gas. In almost every other car out there, that's the right move. In the FR-S, you will crash. Even Ken Gushi managed to spin it out during Automobile's test drive.

I think it's a safe bet that lots of wannabe DORIFTO KINGS!!! will turn off the stability control every time they start the car. Mark my words, this car will be crashed in MASSIVE numbers and the insurance will be sky-high. At least there will be an ample supply of undamaged headlights and front bumpers in the nation's junkyards.

I have my fingers crossed that the BRZ will attract a more mature crowd, be wrecked much less often, and have more reasonable insurance.

You've never experienced lift off oversteer have you?

Originally Posted by Mitch

So you're saying the correct thing for Toyota/Subaru to do would be to set up their suspension so that it handles like a FWD car because that's what people are used to, and if drivers who are not ready for a RWD car turn off the traction control they could spin out. I just want to make sure that's what you're saying.

I swear to God, I hope they don't neuter this thing like they did the MkII MR2

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

All vehicles will have a tendency to oversteer under lift throttle conditions near the limits and a PROPERLY setup FWD car will *snap oversteer* with throttle lift near the limit.

For those who can't drive, leave traction control on. Hell there's zero reason not to on the street.

Don't punish everyone because there are poor drivers in the world.

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

I was going to write hella long post... But I gonna sum it up by quote from Tada-san

"You control the car & not car control you."

If some moron take off traction control on the street to be next Drift King & ram into the wall, only thing I gonna do is point a finger at the person & laugh at em.

Originally Posted by Mari0

Why do people have to b*tch about everything... this is turning into a...

**sigh**

[ruskymx]

2012 and newer models are required to have traction control and stability control by US regulations. If you push the button once, it turns traction control off. Traction control only works when first pulling out. Stability control is still turned on and will not allow the car to be drifted. To disable both systems, you must push and hold the button for 3 seconds and it will turn off both systems and the drift away! I don't see them developing a different way the system operates so this should be true for the FR-S as well. They did develop a less intrusive mode which is the VSC Sport mode and that has it's own button to turn on/off.

Ruskymx

[VenomRush]

think about this though, how many people are going to be driving in residential areas making sharp turns? i'll answer that for you, the ones that deserve to crash.

[Dave-ROR]

So basically the OP is complaining that the rear of an FR-S will hit an innocent bystander/car with the current suspension tuning versas understeering straight into the innocent bystander with the suspension tuning he'd prefer they have?

Both result from an someone driving above his/her or the car's limits.

Nothing would make me want to avoid buying this car more than the setup he proposes.

And to clarify since no one has really pointed it out literally yet (that I saw), near the limits, lift throttle IS NEVER THE RIGHT MOVE.

[no_name]

The old 86 plowed like a beast if you didn't treat it right. I'm really happy about this setup. Can't wait to scare the pants off a Scion rep when I take for a test drive.

[WolfpackS2k]

Geez, it's a wonder we all didn't kill ourselves off before FWD cars became prevalent That is some stupid logic right there.

If you want to know how to drive your car properly then LEARN. Nobody is stopping you. Sadly the government requires basically nothing of you in order to give you a driver's license. The test is ridiculously easy and I'm willing to bet that 90% of the drivers out on the road have never even performed a braking panic stop from highway speeds

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

So basically the OP is complaining that the rear of an FR-S will hit an innocent bystander/car with the current suspension tuning versas understeering straight into the innocent bystander with the suspension tuning he'd prefer they have?

Both result from an someone driving above his/her or the car's limits.

Nothing would make me want to avoid buying this car more than the setup he proposes.

And to clarify since no one has really pointed it out literally yet (that I saw), near the limits, lift throttle IS NEVER THE RIGHT MOVE.

I should have been more explicit ent it?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

I should have been more explicit ent it?

Yep. All I saw you say was "you've never experienced lift throttle oversteer?" or something to that effect so I wanted to add that it was never the right move near the limits, period..