I think Toyota/Scion is making a BIG mistake with the FR-S' suspension tuning
 

Now that first-drive reviews of the production version of the FR-S are coming in, I'm getting concerned about how they've calibrated the suspension. All the reviews state that it's tuned to be neutral, with a tendency to lift-throttle oversteer in a corner if the stability control is turned off.

Of course this is a fun setup if you know what you're doing, but for a generation raised on plowing front drivers (I.e. their target market), it's a recipe for lots of ugly crashes. Enter a corner too hot, start to slide, and the natural reaction for many will be to let off the gas. In almost every other car out there, that's the right move. In the FR-S, you will crash. Even Ken Gushi managed to spin it out during Automobile's test drive.

I think it's a safe bet that lots of wannabe DORIFTO KINGS!!! will turn off the stability control every time they start the car. Mark my words, this car will be crashed in MASSIVE numbers and the insurance will be sky-high. At least there will be an ample supply of undamaged headlights and front bumpers in the nation's junkyards.

I have my fingers crossed that the BRZ will attract a more mature crowd, be wrecked much less often, and have more reasonable insurance.

I think they're making the RIGHT move.

People need to stop being babysat. It's about time we stopped worrying about the idiots.

This needs to be edited to "toyota" because scion is just a rebadge this is how the 86 will be set up not just the scion

^I just read in the C&D review thread that the Scion version will have stiffer dampers and softer springs (not sure compared to which car though) but maybe that will make it less prone to snap oversteer so US will be good.

That's how my Miata is set up. I can't see it being any more than an isolated problem with the driver.

So you're saying the correct thing for Toyota/Subaru to do would be to set up their suspension so that it handles like a FWD car because that's what people are used to, and if drivers who are not ready for a RWD car turn off the traction control they could spin out. I just want to make sure that's what you're saying.

What are you talking about? I mean FR-S. I'm referring to the USDM product, the Scion. I don't care how they set up the Toyota version.

The Scion and Toyota are set up the same.


I think the change is good, less understeer, more agile

If they can't drive it then buy a FWD vehicle. I for one believe Toyota is doing the right thing.

All vehicles will have a tendency to oversteer under lift throttle conditions near the limits and a PROPERLY setup FWD car will *snap oversteer* with throttle lift near the limit.

For those who can't drive, leave traction control on. Hell there's zero reason not to on the street.

Don't punish everyone because there are poor drivers in the world.

Lol that's why the tC is there isn't it? So when someone comes and test drives the FRS, finds they aren't comfortable with it they end up walking out with a tC. Its ultimately up to the end user and we have no control over that. People often buy cars that maybe out of their skill range to control and it happens so just deal with it. Kinda like a 16 year old girl with a Mustang GT, its not Fords fault same with Toyota on this one. They targeted this car at a certain audience and from what i have read, we got what we wanted.

Well yeah, that's why this car comes with vehicle stability control. It looks so out of place in such a bare bones interior car, but they probably predicted people would spin them out without it...especially here in the north east where roads are pretty slick much of the year.

do not forget, they need to push the button for about 3seconds+ to totally shut off the T/C. Most of them will press it once and it will say "T/C off" but remember what happened in the youtube vid? he still could not get it into a drift.

Most people who are crappy drivers or who don't have the intention of trying to break the rear loose won't even know where or what the button does at all.