P&L Header prototype - Page 26 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

rx3 · 05-14-2013, 04:29 AM

While I can see the benefit of a cooler engine bay and the benefit of not losing any temperature (= more velocity/pressure) before the exhaust turbine of a turbocharged engine (since this will deliver more power to the turbo).
I don't quite see the benefit of hotter exhaust gases in the header of an NA-engine, as hotter gases also have a higher viscosity (more friction) and produce more backpressure.
Having said that, exhaust gases are very fast = there's little time for heat exchange. So, any effect (positive or negative) is probably negligible.

Hawaiian · 05-14-2013, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rx3

While I can see the benefit of a cooler engine bay and the benefit of not losing any temperature (= more velocity/pressure) before the exhaust turbine of a turbocharged engine (since this will deliver more power to the turbo).
I don't quite see the benefit of hotter exhaust gases in the header of an NA-engine, as hotter gases also have a higher viscosity (more friction) and produce more backpressure.
Having said that, exhaust gases are very fast = there's little time for heat exchange. So, any effect (positive or negative) is probably negligible.

If it's worth anything, Gmookher was using a temp gun on the coated vs non coated points of his header/overpipe got almost a 70 degree difference in temps.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=48

rx3 · 05-14-2013, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

If it's worth anything, Gmookher was using a temp gun on the coated vs non coated points of his header/overpipe got almost a 70 degree difference in temps.

I don't doubt that its beneficial to the engine bay temperature, but I doubt that it has a significant effect on the temperature of the exhaust gases (and I doubt that having hotter exhaust gases has a significant effect on power of non-turbo charged engines).
Keep in mind that heat-power can easily be produced with a red-glowing infrared heater with 500 W (if it was placed in a header): http://www.osram.com/osram_com/produ...star/index.jsp
But the 'heat-power' in the exhaust gases is about the same as the mechanical power of the engine, which could be around 150'000 W.

xjohnx · 05-14-2013, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

If it's worth anything, Gmookher was using a temp gun on the coated vs non coated points of his header/overpipe got almost a 70 degree difference in temps.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=48

thanks for the link.

not sure how applicable it is though, since it was probably a protype temp gun on a test version of a coating on a super secret prototype header.

test.

prototype.

Hawaiian · 05-14-2013, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjohnx

thanks for the link.

not sure how applicable it is though, since it was probably a protype temp gun on a test version of a coating on a super secret prototype header.

test.

prototype.

You forget, It was testing for extreme heat in the Arizona desert.

xjohnx · 05-15-2013, 10:27 AM

anyone know if the TRD intake will fit with this header?

Hawaiian · 05-15-2013, 11:04 AM

It should. The vortech kit does, and that has similar dimensions. A local company also recently used my car for a 3d engine bay scan. As you can see there's a lot of room.

And it's oh so sparkly!

ScottDRFT · 05-15-2013, 12:44 PM

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX1Ec8CMJUA"]FRS - YouTube[/ame]

Is this how the header is supposed to sound, with the buzzy noise past 4k?

Hawaiian · 05-15-2013, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottDRFT

Is this how the header is supposed to sound, with the buzzy noise past 4k?

Do you have a resonator on your exhaust? This header can add some rasp above 4k rpm depending on your exhaust setup. I'm having another resonator added to mine to clean that up.

mad_sb · 05-15-2013, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottDRFT

Is this how the header is supposed to sound, with the buzzy noise past 4k?

That sounds like metal on metal vibration to me, check where the over pipe crosses over the subframe.

ScottDRFT · 05-15-2013, 04:14 PM

Haha that's not my video xD though I did just jump on the recent group buy! I was just wondering, I am planning on running the perrin catted front pipe and resonated catback. I hope that should tone down some of that weirdness.

ScottDRFT · 05-15-2013, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

Do you have a resonator on your exhaust? This header can add some rasp above 4k rpm depending on your exhaust setup. I'm having another resonator added to mine to clean that up.

Haha that's not my video xD though I did just jump on the recent group buy! I was just wondering, I am planning on running the perrin catted front pipe and resonated catback. I hope that should tone down some of that weirdness.

Hawaiian · 05-15-2013, 04:19 PM

Gmookher has an exact same setup on his car. He was initially unresonated, but added a resonator and loves it.

ScottDRFT · 05-15-2013, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

Gmookher has an exact same setup on his car. He was initially unresonated, but added a resonator and loves it.

Thanks, good to hear! Do you think it is subtle enough to be a DD setup?

05-15-2013, 11:04 AM	#357
Hawaiian That guy Join Date: Feb 2012 Drives: Ultramarine mt FR-S Location: chicago Posts: 2,370 Thanks: 692 Thanked 1,389 Times in 730 Posts Mentioned: 71 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	It should. The vortech kit does, and that has similar dimensions. A local company also recently used my car for a 3d engine bay scan. As you can see there's a lot of room. And it's oh so sparkly! __________________ Ultramarine mt FR-S P&L stage 1 turbo Prime Motoring Flex fuel Jr Tuned 506whp @17psi (e73)

05-15-2013, 04:19 PM	#363
Hawaiian That guy Join Date: Feb 2012 Drives: Ultramarine mt FR-S Location: chicago Posts: 2,370 Thanks: 692 Thanked 1,389 Times in 730 Posts Mentioned: 71 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Gmookher has an exact same setup on his car. He was initially unresonated, but added a resonator and loves it. __________________ Ultramarine mt FR-S P&L stage 1 turbo Prime Motoring Flex fuel Jr Tuned 506whp @17psi (e73)

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05-14-2013, 04:29 AM	#351
rx3 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: BRZ Location: Europe Posts: 350 Thanks: 53 Thanked 114 Times in 71 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	While I can see the benefit of a cooler engine bay and the benefit of not losing any temperature (= more velocity/pressure) before the exhaust turbine of a turbocharged engine (since this will deliver more power to the turbo). I don't quite see the benefit of hotter exhaust gases in the header of an NA-engine, as hotter gases also have a higher viscosity (more friction) and produce more backpressure. Having said that, exhaust gases are very fast = there's little time for heat exchange. So, any effect (positive or negative) is probably negligible.

05-15-2013, 10:27 AM	#356
xjohnx Grip>Slip Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: 13 SWP BRZ Ltd - Innovate Powered! Location: RVA Posts: 3,563 Thanks: 656 Thanked 1,717 Times in 1,031 Posts Mentioned: 45 Post(s) Tagged: 3 Thread(s)	anyone know if the TRD intake will fit with this header?

05-15-2013, 12:44 PM	#358
ScottDRFT Space Cowboy Join Date: May 2012 Drives: '13 BRZ SWP Ltd --> '24 Trueno Ed Location: Boston, MA Posts: 210 Thanks: 125 Thanked 46 Times in 40 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX1Ec8CMJUA"]FRS - YouTube[/ame] Is this how the header is supposed to sound, with the buzzy noise past 4k?

05-15-2013, 04:14 PM	#361
ScottDRFT Space Cowboy Join Date: May 2012 Drives: '13 BRZ SWP Ltd --> '24 Trueno Ed Location: Boston, MA Posts: 210 Thanks: 125 Thanked 46 Times in 40 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Haha that's not my video xD though I did just jump on the recent group buy! I was just wondering, I am planning on running the perrin catted front pipe and resonated catback. I hope that should tone down some of that weirdness.

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