Is it a bad idea to run headers without a tune??

[Mike86]

I have enough money for headers but not yet for a tune, would tou guys suggest i wait or is it okay to run headers without a tune? I know ill make less power but it would just be temporary? I was wondering how it would affect the afr and i would be completly catless also so maybe a chek engine light? I know the bungs are gonna be welded on already so i can still plug my o2 sensors just wondering how the car will react to this!!

Thanks, mike

[Tainen]

I've been running headers without a tune for several thousand miles. AFRs looked fine on the dyno, everything feels great. You could definitely be getting more out of your headers with the tune. Also depends on the headers- I'm sure some have less stock-friendly properties than others.

[Opposed]

Originally Posted by Mike86

I have enough money for headers but not yet for a tune, would tou guys suggest i wait or is it okay to run headers without a tune? I know ill make less power but it would just be temporary? I was wondering how it would affect the afr and i would be completly catless also so maybe a chek engine light? I know the bungs are gonna be welded on already so i can still plug my o2 sensors just wondering how the car will react to this!!

Thanks, mike

You will be fine to run them without a tune. You may run into a CEL after a few hundred miles but it may be fixible with an 02 defouler. Having said that, I would no doubt go for the tune first over the header. The header is a great addition, but the tune is by far the best bang for the buck I have gone with.

[Jar]

Originally Posted by Opposed

You will be fine to run them without a tune. You may run into a CEL after a few hundred miles but it may be fixible with an 02 defouler. Having said that, I would no doubt go for the tune first over the header. The header is a great addition, but the tune is by far the best bang for the buck I have gone with.

If one were to get a tune on their stock FR-S, would that tune still be relevant after you started bolting on new exhaust components?

I'm in kinda the same boat as the OP, in that I want to get a tune and maybe a new header / front pipe combo. Does the order really matter if I add these one at a time?

[jflogerzi]

Depending on your turner, each time you add a bolt on you would do data logging and your turner would send u an updated tune at no cost (most if not all). The only caveat to this if you went to FI you will need to pay your turner to retune

[reeves]

Originally Posted by Opposed

You will be fine to run them without a tune. You may run into a CEL after a few hundred miles but it may be fixible with an 02 defouler. Having said that, I would no doubt go for the tune first over the header. The header is a great addition, but the tune is by far the best bang for the buck I have gone with.

+1 for the tune first, headers 2nd.

Also, as it's been mentioned, most tuners worth their money aren't going to charge too much for a re-tune once you get your headers installed.. some won't charge you at all for any bolt-on additions.

[Oburn]

I still don't understand the concept of tuning with like the Ecutek or other tuning options when it comes to having different aftermarket products from different manufactures. How does the tuning work like that?

For example, I plan to get a Perrin catback exhaust(resonated), front and over pipe. Perrin doesn't have a header, so in considering a JDM or Rev Works, UEL header. Then if you add a different manufacture air intake etc... So does that mean you would have to purchase a Perrin map license, and a license for each other manufacture aftermarket product? Sorry I'm new to this and still learning all of this tuning stuff.

[Tainen]

Originally Posted by Oburn

I still don't understand the concept of tuning with like the Ecutek or other tuning options when it comes to having different aftermarket products from different manufactures. How does the tuning work like that?

For example, I plan to get a Perrin catback exhaust(resonated), front and over pipe. Perrin doesn't have a header, so in considering a JDM or Rev Works, UEL header. Then if you add a different manufacture air intake etc... So does that mean you would have to purchase a Perrin map license, and a license for each other manufacture aftermarket product? Sorry I'm new to this and still learning all of this tuning stuff.

Nope. those are independent systems on the car. You just want the tune (think of the software version of the car) manually modified to get the most out of the parts on the car by adjusting timing, AFR, and other variables. Because different parts flow differently, different tunes help get the max out of those setups. So whenever you change the properties of your exhaust or intake setup, a retune would be a decent idea to make sure you are getting the most out of it and operating within safe parameters.

[Oburn]

Ok so basically you get the initial tune from say ecutec to get more performance from your car. But then I've seen perrin also has a set of maps also and I seem a few other companies with maps which is where I get confused haha. I understand the basic concept of the tune, just now how it works as far as it goes with aftermarket parts added afterwards.

Also I live I Canada in a smaller province where there isn't a huge industry here for performance stuff like this. We have some custome shops and stuff, but I have no idea if we even have a shop here with a dyno. Also the highest grade fuel here is octane 91 which I know you get more performance with 93 or E85 which I have no idea what that is lol.

So my other question is, when you get the tune, is a dyno test still needed on your car or no? Sorry if I'm making this confusing.

[lokvo]

^^Thanks for asking the question, I'm in the same situation.

[Laika]

Dyno isn't needed for a "mail in" tune. It's a one size fits all deal. Meaning it won't be perfect but it'll be damn close. Like buying your size dress pants off the rack versus having them tailored.

E85 is fuel that is 85 ethanol (alcohol). It'll get your car drunk.

[Oburn]

Ok so I guess the next question is, how do I go about getting the license? I checked Ecutec site and they only sell to other company's so where should I go to get one?

[NickFRS]

why tune first then header second??? Both give similar gains. Get the header first then tune 2nd.

[Xero-Limit]

This is where the datalogging features of EcuTek ProECU are incredible. We have been doing this with other platforms since 2009 on the MX-5, back when nobody would really consider custom "e-tuning" viable. Now it is the standard. Usually when we send our tunes to shops to "fine tune" they make 1-2 hp at best on the MX-5, often times nothing. With the BRZ it is a similar story where once the base tune is developed for a product (i.e. header, SC) as long as you have a fairly standard car, the tunes are consistent and can adjust to a degree. But you get 95% of the performance at fraction of the cost since you put the time in driving and not someone billing you.

In regards to the OP's question, it isn't a bad idea as in harm the car IMO, but you're not getting the full potential. A header opens up a big choke point in the motor, and to leave it untuned is leaving more on the table. Sometimes you can have it gain power, but throw off the AFR so much that you pick up even more power from fixing it with a tune (custom via datalogging).

You can do all this at a local dyno who has the ability to tune the car, but I like the street tuning method so that you can take into account the learning and it saves a ton of cash not having to tie up the dyno for hours. Do the street tune and get it in the ballpark, then hop on the rollers for a couple of hours and tweak the timing, AFR, and do a mild cam sweep to see where the sweet spots are. Then double check and correct for the learning.

The tunes are never "one size fits all though"...I am continuously amazed at how two cars a couple of VIN #'s apart (belonging to the same race team) have trims differing 10% between the two identical setups. Put two nearly identical cars on the dyno, one runs 28 degrees at peak power, the other won't let you get past 24...all variances where you'd think there wouldn't be. Fortunately these things we can tell by street tuning/datalogs, and minimize the dyno costs.