Most reliable F/I kit?

[AVOturboworld]

Ok, I can chronicle two turbo kits on two different n/a cars that I've fitted and owned myself.

The first turbo kit was fitted up to a 2007 Subaru Outback 2.5i. At the time we put the car on it, it had about 174,000+ miles on the car (in three years!). To prepare the car for the turbo kit install, I first made sure everything on it was 100%, or at least as close to that as you could with that high of a mileage. What that meant was new oil, new filters, new spark plugs, a cleaning of the fuel injection system, and a general check of the rest of the systems. After the install and tuning, we ran it pretty much as is for a little over two years as the general shop car and event car. It was "retired" at 200k and sold to a new owner - after I had the timing belt done and some other maintenance work. AFAIK, it's still going.

The second is the turbo kit on our FR-S, which was installed and dyno'd last October about 10 minutes before the trip down to SEMA. Yeah, literally we finished the last dyno run, rolled it off the rollers, and started driving. The road trip has been documented elsewhere, but we did the road tune calibration over two days down, two days back, in nearly every condition except a snow storm.

I've put on about 10k miles on the kit, and I'd like to say that it's gone through a "normal" life, but it hasn't. I've used it to go to events, I do parts deliveries in it, I've use it for drift events. Other people have been driving it, up to and including pro drivers at the drift events. To date, maintenance has been 4 oil changes. That is higher than normal, but in my defense, it wasn't because it was low on oil. I wanted to test 10w40 vs. 0w20 vs. 5w30, so there was a couple of changes at only 1~2k.

In regards to daily/weekly/monthly mechanical maintenance, we aren't running under the same situation as a normal user. I've had the undertray off the car so often that I can take it on and off in about 10 minutes. But that's because I've been fitting 3 different actuators for testing, fitting different boost controllers, and other equipment testing. If I wasn't doing that and just driving, I wouldn't have done anything but the oil changes and panel filter changes.

Something I'd like to add to all of this, though, is that we don't even know how reliable the car is stock. It's the first year of this car still, and until the 3rd year, it's a toss-up on what to expect. I've thoroughly thrashed the clutch at 14.5k miles, and I generally blamed that on pushing up to 260ft/lbs of torque through a clutch designed for 140ft/lbs. But then I've now heard of two people in the 15k range on the n/a cars who's clutches are feeling soft/slipping, so maybe it's a separate issue. We will see.

[killerkid08]

Originally Posted by official_george

Might have misread some info from this thread, but exactly what kind of maintenance does a typical turbo charger kit requires?

None unless it has desperate reservoirs.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by mrk1

I like the turbo placement on the avo but the extra oil pump scares me. I like having gravity do the draining.

This sounds like the typical "electric oil pump will fail, turbo fries" argument.

The AVO pump is not electrical, it is a MECHANICAL pump. As long as the cams are turning, the pump will suck oil on one side and push it out on the other. It will fail in the same fashion your motor oil pump would fail. Yeah, its extremely rare one of those would fail.....

[official_george]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

This sounds like the typical "electric oil pump will fail, turbo fries" argument.

The AVO pump is not electrical, it is a MECHANICAL pump. As long as the cams are turning, the pump will suck oil on one side and push it out on the other. It will fail in the same fashion your motor oil pump would fail. Yeah, its extremely rare one of those would fail.....

Can anyone link me to a PDF of the Vortech installation manual please? I read AVO and it seems pretty doable for me.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by official_george

Can anyone link me to a PDF of the Vortech installation manual please? I read AVO and it seems pretty doable for me.

I've seen it. Its doable too.

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/96.pdf

[Pablitomarrero]

Can anyone provide me with AVO's instructions? I want to look them over, ive searched for a while and cant seem to find it...

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by Pablitomarrero

Can anyone provide me with AVO's instructions? I want to look them over, ive searched for a while and cant seem to find it...

@Sportsguy83 would be more than happy to, just hit him up with a pm of your email

[Pablitomarrero]

Originally Posted by SmsAlSuwaidi

@Sportsguy83 would be more than happy to, just hit him up with a pm of your email

was just about to! :happy0180:

[civdaddy]

I would def have a good shop install the kit. A friend of mine had his turbo kit installed by our mutual friend who is an awesome mechanic. The company shipped the kit with a 10psi wastegate instead of a 7psi one (which was what the ecu was tuned for). The mechanic was quick to find this out and told the friend not to get into boost until the proper wastegate was installed. He didnt take his advice and put a rod through his block at 90mph. Point is even if you install the parts correctly it can still go wrong..

Have a good shop install it.

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by civdaddy

I would def have a good shop install the kit. A friend of mine had his turbo kit installed by our mutual friend who is an awesome mechanic. The company shipped the kit with a 10psi wastegate instead of a 7psi one (which was what the ecu was tuned for). The mechanic was quick to find this out and told the friend not to get into boost until the proper wastegate was installed. He didnt take his advice and put a rod through his block at 90mph. Point is even if you install the parts correctly it can still go wrong..

Have a good shop install it.

that should be blamed on the manufacture of the kit, + I'm considering installing my first FI kit by my self on this car and i know there is a huge risk of me missing something up, and sadly thats the process of learning.

it all comes down to preference and how much you are willing to risk.

[civdaddy]

Originally Posted by SmsAlSuwaidi

that should be blamed on the manufacture of the kit, + I'm considering installing my first FI kit by my self on this car and i know there is a huge risk of me missing something up, and sadly thats the process of learning.

it all comes down to preference and how much you are willing to risk.

If your mechanically inclined and have all the tools why not? If your unsure about something this forum will answer any questions you have which is an awesome tool to have.

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by civdaddy

If your mechanically inclined and have all the tools why not? If your unsure about something this forum will answer any questions you have which is an awesome tool to have.

sadly i barely have any tools, and i also don't own a garage , but im very motivated about doing this and i know a few forums members are going to be willing to help me out. I'm saving up for tools and using friends and cousins garages to do most installs. the reason is I'm an international student down here and mostly everything i own thats fancy is back home.

[Supermassive]

The original question about reliability lies in hands of the owner and the diligence of their maintenance. I recommend doing your own install if, and only if, you feel comfortable doing so. Doing it yourself gives you a very intimate understanding of how the thing works, where things could go wrong, and the pride of ownership of your work leads to more desire to keep the thing in top running order. I've gotten a little over 10k trouble free miles out of my P&L Motorsports kit and I can't stop recommending it to anyone within earshot. There are some things that will be tough depending on your skill sets and experience, depending on the kit you go with.

Just remember that the more power you go for the more you need to pay attention too how the car is running. 7-8lbs of boost is very easy for this car to handle, nets some good gains, and won't stress the drivetrain too much. 12 PSI is where the car will likely run into a wall at the current compression ratio for pump gas and also where the stock clutch is woefully incapable of doing its job. So on and so forth.

Also don't forget the supporting mods for the car, you'll need gauges with a turbo setup, at the very least a Boost gauge. You'll want to consider a fuel pump upgrade and injectors as well. Wheels and tires are another thing you'll need to make sure are up to the task, 240-260WHP doesnt sound like a whole bunch but my car with "only" 260WHP will spin 255/35/18 tires without trying. This is where your suspension comes into play, camber and toe adjustments will need to be made to help the rear hook up. Different spring rates for the rear will help get the car to transfer weight over the rear wheels...I just recently swapped the front springs on my KW's to the rear and it was a night and day difference on how the car reacted to the throttle.

Most people (not all) just see the turbo kit as a "fix" to the power deficit this car has, but in truth slapping a turbo on a mostly stock car might be fun for a little bit, but it will make driving it more work and also more dangerous. Turbo power comes on hard and fast with this engine, max boost is hit so easily and so early in the RPM range on these 7-8 PSI kits that you have all of your torque available at just 4500rpm in some cases.

As for the supercharger route...I honestly have to say go with the Vortech, I finally drove Gmooker's car with the Vortech and it is pretty awesome the linearity of the power is definitely the strongest selling point of the kit, it's easy to drive it fast and to be honest it is deceptively quick. I think my turbo kit at 7 PSI will edge it out in a 1/4 mile dash, but it would be extremely close, and with all things being equal I think the Vortech would be easier to live with on a daily basis.

I love my turbocharged FR-S, but i would be lying if I didn't say that i also like the Vortech kit as well.

[King Tut]

The question is, if the Vortech kit had been available when you bought your P&L kit, would you go back and buy the Vortech kit?