Scion Drops the ball...

[tripjammer]

New rumors are that the car they should was low-spec on purpose...they wanted to show you where you start from. I now think that is a good idea. All the other cars (86, BRZ, and GT86) shown so far have been almost fully loaded.

So if Scion is smart they will sell the base FR-S at $22k and let you add what you want..ie dual zone ac, HIDs, LED DRLs, leather\alcantra seats, push button start...ect.

If they let you customize it the way you want it. They will be golden.

That way if you want a stripped car at $22k you got it...if you want to loaded with push button start, and HID\LEDs, but basic ac and seats...you got it...

Scion please do this.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

New rumors are that the car they should was low-spec on purpose...they wanted to show you where you start from. I now think that is a good idea. All the other cars (86, BRZ, and GT86) shown so far have been almost fully loaded.

So if Scion is smart they will sell the base FR-S at $22k and let you add what you want..ie dual zone ac, HIDs, LED DRLs, leather\alcantra seats, push button start...ect.

If they let you customize it the way you want it. They will be golden.

That way if you want a stripped car at $22k you got it...if you want to loaded with push button start, and HID\LEDs, but basic ac and seats...you got it...

Scion please do this.

If that is the case, isn't Subaru forced to offer a base in addition to their premium and a limited versions? Or can Subaru survive with the premium and limited even if their lowest offering starts at $2-3k more than Scion's?

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

If that is the case, isn't Subaru forced to offer a base in addition to their premium and a limited versions? Or can Subaru survive with the premium and limited even if their lowest offering starts at $2-3k more than Scion's?

If you have to go for the Subaru to get push button start, LED DLRs, and leather, Subaru has something compelling to offer over the Scion. If they offer all that stuff on the Scion, and being able to get it a la carte on the Scion, why would you even look at the Subaru? I think this is precisely why the FR-S is coming pretty stripped. It keeps cost of entry low and clearly says "hey, this is the one to buy if you want to mod". Keeping the BRZ uplevel gives Subaru a finished product for the buyer that doesn't want to modify much.

Basically, yeah, you're right. Subaru would be high and dry if you can get everything on the Scion a la carte.

[BANGER]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

New rumors are that the car they should was low-spec on purpose...they wanted to show you where you start from. I now think that is a good idea. All the other cars (86, BRZ, and GT86) shown so far have been almost fully loaded.

So if Scion is smart they will sell the base FR-S at $22k and let you add what you want..ie dual zone ac, HIDs, LED DRLs, leather\alcantra seats, push button start...ect.

If they let you customize it the way you want it. They will be golden.

That way if you want a stripped car at $22k you got it...if you want to loaded with push button start, and HID\LEDs, but basic ac and seats...you got it...

Scion please do this.

Hmm, makes sense. Considering the discussion about how Scion knows their market (teens and young adults) and when/where to advertise, you certainly wouldn't want to show off and hype a fully-loaded trim and say shortly afterwards (what we're waiting for) "this'll cost ya $24k ".
Hell, look at what happened to this forum after the GT86-to-FRS reveal debacle, lol.

[Kids Heart]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

If that is the case, isn't Subaru forced to offer a base in addition to their premium and a limited versions? Or can Subaru survive with the premium and limited even if their lowest offering starts at $2-3k more than Scion's?

What if the Subaru premium is a better value than the FRS with all of the equivalent add ons?

[sharky]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

New rumors are that the car they should was low-spec on purpose...they wanted to show you where you start from. I now think that is a good idea. All the other cars (86, BRZ, and GT86) shown so far have been almost fully loaded.

So if Scion is smart they will sell the base FR-S at $22k and let you add what you want..ie dual zone ac, HIDs, LED DRLs, leather\alcantra seats, push button start...ect.

If they let you customize it the way you want it. They will be golden.

That way if you want a stripped car at $22k you got it...if you want to loaded with push button start, and HID\LEDs, but basic ac and seats...you got it...

Scion please do this.

Yes, I think that would be the way to go. However, I am just worry that it will not be the. I've never seen unveil that shows a low spec car when there is a high spec one coming. I could/hope to be wrong.
I'm sure Scion staff are reading this forum and hopefully they have the this as their plan. If not, they are trying to do correct they plan for the 2014 model.

[EDub]

Originally Posted by Kids Heart

What if the Subaru premium is a better value than the FRS with all of the equivalent add ons?

I would still buy it over the suby because that's the front end and options I want.

[tripjammer]

Interview with Scion VP Jack Hollis...he confirmed it. What we say was the base FR-S...the blank slate. Everything we saw was standard.

Like I was saying earlier, if they let us build it up to what is in the high-spec 86...Scion will get much love from everybody.

[Ak1m0to]

Originally Posted by The Robot Cow

Honestly i couldnt care less about minor things like a push button start, fog lights, and other little things. At least here in the Usa Scion is bringing us the 86 around the same time the rest of the world is getting it. Toyota could have kept this car a Japan only car. Who cares if it's being sold under the Scion name? It's still a Toyota. You can always swap the badge if it matters that much to you.

And if i'm not mistaken, the Frs shown at the unveil the other day is a production "prototype".

The thing is, these Japanese car companies sells us a stripped down version of what they have and expect us to be happy about it.
And for the most part, Americans have been so they think it's ok.

Why do you think we never got a S15, any previous GTR besides the current one, or why Honda says the SI is good enough and we don't get any other Type-Rs.

It's not just the cheapness of the car, but it's the lack of being able to get it from the factory.
I don't mind paying a little more to get those options if I wanted to, but I can't even do that.

And I think that's what upsets me the most.

Get the Subaru, sorry, I'm brand loyal and trust Toyota reliability more.

[DRACHENV6]

I am sure if people were willing to pay, toyota would provide anything. Unfortunately that isnt where the money is. Japan gets better cars because there is a demand for them. Back in the day supra sales were abysmal leading to their discontinuation in the U.S. The U.S. did get the beefier supra though because toyota knows our love for power vs that in Japan.

This car is coming soon. Buy it or leave it. If you guys want extra options, than buy those also. The price of this car with options should put you guys on par with what the rest of the world is paying so I think that is totally fair. I believe that the success of this car will shape the future car offerings of not just toyota/subaru but also their competitors who will be pressed to keep up.

The pricing looks to be amazing for the low spec and okay for the higher spec, but honestly I would rather spend 5k on a good supercharger setup and supporting mods rather than 5k for "amenities." Although they would be nice to have, they're not really bang-for-your-buck. At least not for me.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Ak1m0to

Why do you think we never got a S15, any previous GTR besides the current one, or why Honda says the SI is good enough and we don't get any other Type-Rs.

Emissions, simple as that.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Kids Heart

What if the Subaru premium is a better value than the FRS with all of the equivalent add ons?

The thing is, if the FRS has a barebones option that is $4k cheaper, then I can add all those add-ons that I want instead of getting the limited package which has things I don't need. Subaru would be screwed if this is the case (would still get Subaru fanboys). For both of these cars to survive against each other, they really need to target different aspects of the market; Scion stripped down version and Subaru then one with all the bells and whistles. If you can get all those bells and whistles added onto the Scion (which would have a lower starting price) and only pick exactly what you want, then what point does the Subaru serve in the market?

[rmagic]

I think what people are complaining is not necessarily about what they changed from GT86 to Scion. I think it's about how poorly they have done it. We are all fans of the car and I think we should speak up about what we feel, whether it's right or wrong. If we are right, there is a possibility that Toyota or Scion may check this site out for people's comments and may realize that they cannot take the easy way out.

Personally, I think if the manufacturer builds the same car for all market, it would actually cost them less than re-designing for different markets. However, what I believe the true reason they did this is that buyers would end up buying a car WITH all options and that's where they really make their money. But then, this is just really my wild thought and it's not based on any facts but there is a possibility that it really makes no difference for toyota or subaru if buyers buy either of the car at the end, because of the deal that they may have made between themselves.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by rmagic

I think what people are complaining is not necessarily about what they changed from GT86 to Scion. I think it's about how poorly they have done it. We are all fans of the car and I think we should speak up about what we feel, whether it's right or wrong. If we are right, there is a possibility that Toyota or Scion may check this site out for people's comments and may realize that they cannot take the easy way out.

Personally, I think if the manufacturer builds the same car for all market, it would actually cost them less than re-designing for different markets. However, what I believe the true reason they did this is that buyers would end up buying a car WITH all options and that's where they really make their money. But then, this is just really my wild thought and it's not based on any facts but there is a possibility that it really makes no difference for toyota or subaru if buyers buy either of the car at the end, because of the deal that they may have made between themselves.

In house components? yes. External suppliers? no. I think almost every carmakers source component from external suppliers because external supplier is cheaper and better quality.