KW V3: To flip or not to flip

[wootwoot]

Thanks for the advice guys!

It seems the autoX guys are flipping the springs with great results. Any HPDE/track people care to chime in? I believe robi is running custom rates with a stiffer rear. Anyone else?

[mad_sb]

OEM rates are higher on the rear springs for both subaru and toyata as others have mentioned. I'm not quite ready for coilovers or springs and shock combo, but after shopping around I'm not at all sure what I would want to go with.

The instructors that have ridden with me on track in my FR-S have all commented on how good the car feels. To me it feels very neutral and easily balanced with the available inputs (steering throttle brake). So far all i have done is 17x8 SSR's and 225 45 Advan AD08's.

I was considerign the RCE yellows until i saw the rates are effectively stiffer in the front than the stock setup, which makes me think they would introduce a tendency to under-steer.

Maybe as you stiffen up the suspension the chassis reacts quicker to inputs which results in more tendency to over-steer???

[robispec]

Originally Posted by Hanakuso

Pics!

STREET no sheetmetal triming
Adds 2" rear travel



RACE requires rear sheetmetal trimming
Adds 3" rear travel


Last edited by robispec; Yesterday at 10:50 PM.

[wootwoot]

Those are sweet! Are they for KW's? Or stock spring/shock? Price?

[robispec]

any aftermarket coilover application.

Robi

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

OEM rates are higher on the rear springs for both subaru and toyata as others have mentioned. I'm not quite ready for coilovers or springs and shock combo, but after shopping around I'm not at all sure what I would want to go with.

The instructors that have ridden with me on track in my FR-S have all commented on how good the car feels. To me it feels very neutral and easily balanced with the available inputs (steering throttle brake). So far all i have done is 17x8 SSR's and 225 45 Advan AD08's.

I was considerign the RCE yellows until i saw the rates are effectively stiffer in the front than the stock setup, which makes me think they would introduce a tendency to under-steer.

Maybe as you stiffen up the suspension the chassis reacts quicker to inputs which results in more tendency to over-steer???

I am in the same exact boat. All of my testing with 225 RS3s and strano front bar and alignment have me very happy.

My only issue is some slop/roll and twitchy rear end which is not unstable, it just zaps my confidence to push it.

I don't want coilovers as the car is 90% street. I don't want to corner balance and align 3x a year for track, street and winter. Too much drama. And setup like Sam said, I dont have time to re engineer what the best ride height is, bound and rebound settings for the car after coilovers.

And it changes per event anyway. its impractical to do it right.

I do want to try Konis going to order from Sam tomorrow.
but in terms of springs RCE yellows seem to be the best choice for a spring for street track and autox for the yellows. I don't like an over sprung car.

Whats the opinion on that? 250/250 good?

[wootwoot]

mas_sb: I don't think those rates will induce understeer. Many on this forum are running a much stiffer front to rear spring ratio with a stiffer front bar and reports have been very good. I don't think I have heard of any understeer issues yet.

Dezoris: I have also been looking at the racecomp yellows. They seem like a great compromise. I was convinced I wanted KW's but all the points you have brought up make me hesitant. There is just so much to adjust and get right... it seems overwhelming for the occasional track person.

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I am in the same exact boat. All of my testing with 225 RS3s and strano front bar and alignment have me very happy.

My only issue is some slop/roll and twitchy rear end which is not unstable, it just zaps my confidence to push it.

I don't want coilovers as the car is 90% street. I don't want to corner balance and align 3x a year for track, street and winter. Too much drama. And setup like Sam said, I dont have time to re engineer what the best ride height is, bound and rebound settings for the car after coilovers.

And it changes per event anyway. its impractical to do it right.

I do want to try Konis going to order from Sam tomorrow.
but in terms of springs RCE yellows seem to be the best choice for a spring for street track and autox for the yellows. I don't like an over sprung car.

Whats the opinion on that? 250/250 good?

Originally Posted by wootwoot

mas_sb: I don't think those rates will induce understeer. Many on this forum are running a much stiffer front to rear spring ratio with a stiffer front bar and reports have been very good. I don't think I have heard of any understeer issues yet.

Dezoris: I have also been looking at the racecomp yellows. They seem like a great compromise. I was convinced I wanted KW's but all the points you have brought up make me hesitant. There is just so much to adjust and get right... it seems overwhelming for the occasional track person.

Yes, the koni's with RCE yellows, and whiteline top hats and an adjustable rear lower control arm is what i had planned on doing when the time comes...

However.. I am draw to the Kw's because of the independent bump and rebound so that i can adjust the characteristics easily if there is something i don't like... from tuning the turn in / track out response to swapping spring rates around.

uggg sry for the

[Racecomp Engineering]

We've got a bunch of guys tracking and auto-crossing their cars on our RCE Yellows regularly...lots of happy drivers.

One thing to keep in mind is that the front and rear have very different suspension designs, so in increase of X% at the front doesn't necessarily = an increase of X% at the rear. The front is a strut and a little extra rate goes a long way towards keeping the car geometrically happy. Better turn-in as well while keeping the rear controlled makes for a fast and confidence inspiring car. Understeer is not an issue.

Stock and a lot of the softer rate lowering springs that drop an inch or more are very bumpstop active in cornering, so the spring rate gets a little spikey in heavy cornering. Makes it's easier to overload the tires, leading to understeer. With our firmer front springs, mild drop, and shortened bumpstops, things are a bit more linear and consistent.

As for KW V3 vs. Koni + RCE Yellows....as a vendor for both set-ups (except the Konis, get those from Strano or TIC) it really depends on your needs. The Koni + RCE set-up is simple, fun, fast, and cheap. It's kind of the easy button, put them on get a good alignment, and go have fun. If you're a bit more serious, running fairly sticky tires, like fiddling with adjustments, or you are looking for a little more of an edge for auto-x or the track, than the KW V3s will do well for you. Or RCE T2 Clubsports (based on KW clubsports).

- Andy

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

We've got a bunch of guys tracking and auto-crossing their cars on our RCE Yellows regularly...lots of happy drivers.

One thing to keep in mind is that the front and rear have very different suspension designs, so in increase of X% at the front doesn't necessarily = an increase of X% at the rear. The front is a strut and a little extra rate goes a long way towards keeping the car geometrically happy. Better turn-in as well while keeping the rear controlled makes for a fast and confidence inspiring car. Understeer is not an issue.

Stock and a lot of the softer rate lowering springs that drop an inch or more are very bumpstop active in cornering, so the spring rate gets a little spikey in heavy cornering. Makes it's easier to overload the tires, leading to understeer. With our firmer front springs, mild drop, and shortened bumpstops, things are a bit more linear and consistent.

As for KW V3 vs. Koni + RCE Yellows....as a vendor for both set-ups (except the Konis, get those from Strano or TIC) it really depends on your needs. The Koni + RCE set-up is simple, fun, fast, and cheap. It's kind of the easy button, put them on get a good alignment, and go have fun. If you're a bit more serious, running fairly sticky tires, like fiddling with adjustments, or you are looking for a little more of an edge for auto-x or the track, than the KW V3s will do well for you. Or RCE T2 Clubsports (based on KW clubsports).

- Andy

On Koni Yellows would you use the RCE bumpstops or the Koni?

[Racecomp Engineering]

RCE bumpstops.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

RCE bumpstops.

Thanks!

[YDNA]

So is everyone generally flipping the springs? I haven't tried it out yet, but have been debating on if I should or not. Do you guys see any changes in handling?