Report: Supercharged Toyota 86 being developed by TRD!!

[JohnnyR]

Originally Posted by CyberFormula

Solid diff in the rear my asssssss.

In addition, adding the RIGHT amount of power, that is matched to the right type of suspension SETTING and brakes, and chamber angles, tires, etc. is not going to disrupt the handling capabilities of the car.

"adding more power" IS goin to disrupt the handling capabilities of the car.

You don't think that they're not going to tweak the rest of the car to match it? The chassis is fine for it, they'll add in the tweaks, it's not that hard to assume. I doubt they're just going to go FI with it and put it out in the entry level car's settings in such. It's not hard to follow.

Snaps - To each their own. I had a 2000 Celica GT-S with bolt ons, I tracked it a handful of times it was fun. I sat in my Evo which I still have, took it to the same tracks/events, and it was infinitely more fun. Sure, you needed to drive better, but getting on the power out of the turns, getting up the speed into the turns and getting on the brakes right made it more fun to me. This isn't exactly a class change here, not a going from a miata to a ZR1, this is just adding a small dose of power all around anyways. Maybe it's just me but I'd personally have more fun getting better times, that's all.

[Steve Theodore]

Originally Posted by subatoy

I would LOVE to hear how toyota is planning on safely boosting a
12.5:1 ratio.
unless they are planning on adjusting the ratio by changing pistons and heads I don't think this will happen. it would make the SC a very expensive kit.

Welcome to the world of direct fuel injection and modern engine control systems. It can be done, but not at as high a boost pressure/power level as you would be able to do with less of a static compression ratio. In fact, there is nothing saying they won't lower the compression ratio a bit for the upcoming forced induction variant.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

Why exactly would this car lose it's "quickness" through a corner via FI again? It's weight isn't going to change significantly first off, the chassis can obviously handle the power gain, and they can throw a little wider/stickier tire on there to put the power down as it already has a solid diff in the rear. 50-100lbs is not much of an issue considering how much of a gain you would get throughout the range. 50-100lbs more onto the stock N/A motor is a heavy penalty, but the power this car would gain would instantly offset that by a margin.

I love how people "think" that by adding more power is going to disrupt the handling capabilities of the car. Or, just make it less fun. That's flat out wrong. The chassis was designed for handling from the get go, and that's what matters most. Adding power here is icing on the cake. Powering out of turns, getting up to ideal track speeds faster/sooner on straights, all pluses.

supercharger 50lbs all equip (est)
coilovers lowers COG which would make the COG lower than anything out there.... (better handling)
titanium exhaust, lightweight pulleys, lightweight flywheel, new clutch stainless steel headers, forged wheels, would counteract the supercharger addition and (free up the un-sprung weight )
all things i would end up doing the first 5 years ill have my car, alot of us will also be doing the same

300 whp with a supercharger, intake, headers, exhuast puts it at about <9 lbs/ hp thats better than a 5.0 mustang

[WingsofWar]

A small dose of power shouldn't take away from the cars purposefulness. But its easy to get carried away and turn the car into something else. Which is both a shame but cool at the same time.

Anyone should have the freedom to want more power in their car...regardless if it was a miata, 240sx, or even FRS/BRZ. And you should if those are your goals.

But at the same time, it is a shame because you really start to miss out on the beauty of high performance low output. The little things that made the AE86 bonifide sports car start to blur when you start wanting MORE. Granted many AE86 tuners wanted more power, 20v blacktop is still a popular engine swap.

So I say, 200hp N/A is really more than enough for the purpose of this car. I believe that 250hp supercharged may be pushing the dynamics of the car in its entirety. I would really be cautios in how much power a tuner puts in. Especially if he/she really wants to understand why Toyota built this car and the soul/spirit that is attached to it.

[serialk11r]

300hp is a bit far fetched don't you think? Remember the higher you crank boost pressure the more pressure escapes out the tailpipe. Subaru needed 1 bar of boost to get 230hp from the WRX (albeit at a lower rpm), you'll need a gigantic supercharger to hit 300, even if this engine can magically unlock 20hp with just a tune.

[cyde01]

Hey, 86 fans are a niche. Not everyone is gonna “get it.“ this sc version is for those people, and i'm glad they're gonna get what they hoped for. At the same time, i'm glad i'm one of the ones who “get it“ because i won't have to pay nearly as much for the car and insurance and still be satisfied! Here's to choice!:happy0180:

[cassidy0998]

Remember guys, this car is about the driver - they want to make it so that if we want a little more power, we can do that - and if not, so be it - even if the car wasn't originally designed for it. I would except to see around +50hp from a TRD supercharger on a safe amount of low boost. That won't affect the overall drive-ability or purpose of the car I assure you. It will be fine, and will only make the car more "tuner" oriented.

For people to say that this car wasn't designed to have more power, then you might as well say it wasn't designed to be any lighter, or not have different suspension setups - which is true - when driving it off the lot. So are we not supposed to mod it at all? Is it perfect as is? No, it isn't, and I think that's a big selling point. Mod mod mod!

This car is a generic template, we are free to do with it what we wish.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

300hp is a bit far fetched don't you think? Remember the higher you crank boost pressure the more pressure escapes out the tailpipe. Subaru needed 1 bar of boost to get 230hp from the WRX (albeit at a lower rpm), you'll need a gigantic supercharger to hit 300, even if this engine can magically unlock 20hp with just a tune.

well the impreza base 2.5 makes 170 bhp with less compression so a 60 hp gain from 1 bar

200+60 bhp is 260bhp and thats if the compression was the same... with a higher compression ratio you could imagine the numbers would be higher...

the celica can make 260 whp from .5 bar from a 1.8L 180 bhp engine on stock compression (11.5) so you could imagine 12.5 compression on .4 -.5 bar would make around 250whp which is about 290 its not much boost for a high compression engine

[Devie]

This sounds great to me. I was hoping this car could get an extra 20-30bhp just to get it within the 6-6.5 second mark to 100kmph. A SC might be able to get it into the late 5's.
My current car has a SC, love the noise it makes, and love the constant power. But my car is quite underpowered compared to whats out there, so I was hoping that this being my possible next car will be a decent amount quicker.

Realllllly hope that if they do put one in, they make sure you can hear it!

[Soravia]

I think it's not about how much, but more about how it's delivered. I would definitely go with supercharger over turbo on this car. Something that will enhance the power without taking away the control on the delivery of it. The car can handle some more power with minor upgrade on suspension and tires. Stock rubber looks like rubbish from Prius. Stock anti-roll bars looks smaller than stock 240SX bars.

[PuGZoR]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

.... just read the part that says INTERCOOLER they have done it

http://http://www.toyotaracing.com/t...ercharger.html

EDIT: its not as good as traditional intercooling but i would gladly buy it cause i dont want to route a bunch of piping personally... plus its plug n play

True, true. Sorry, we don't get any fun parts over here in AU. To me, having an intercooler like that attached to the supercharger would make things a bit annoying. Not only is it going to suffer from a lot of heatsoak due to basically being mounted on the engine, but I'm guessing it'd restrict a bit of access to other parts of the engine. You'd really have to have the water/coolant circulating quickly to get around this and would probably be better off having a secondary cooler/radiator somewhere else to get that coolant back to ambient. Not saying it wouldn't work, just saying that the intercooler would probably be fairly inefficient for the extra cost and complication it would add.

Meh, that's what I say, haha.

To me, a car that is just slightly underpowered is probably going to be the most fun. Why? Because you can always push the car right to the edge and it's much easier to absolutely master the power you do have. It's really easy to become unstuck with a high power car (not only resulting in less fun, but potentially costing you if you hit something!), but with a lower powered car you fearlessly fling the car around because you know precisely how it's going to react, and it's much easier to correct mistakes.

Another way to think about it is around throttle control. Let's say that to be competitive, you need to apply a certain amount of power to your car to quickly get through a set of twisties. Let's compare a car with 200HP, and an identical car with 500HP. Assume that it's revs are close to the point of peak power too, for simplicity sake. With that extra power your throttle isn't going to be more sensitive, so you need to find that precise point of power from a larger range. Again, for simplicity, let's say that the car needs to be around 120HP with a range of 20HP (so between 100 and 140HP). For the 200HP car, this is a range of 10%, meaning your throttle will only have to be within 10% of the correct throttle position, however, with the 500HP car you need to be within 4% of the correct throttle position.

I know, lots of assumptions need to be made (same weight, same suspension, same everything except the power) but basically, if you have just enough power for what you want to do, it's going to be easier to precisely control the car than having too much power.

[Levi]

LOL. I gotta feeling some claim the 458 Italia is has to much power and so GT86 is more fun to drive. It is not this.

What makes a car fun to drive is when you drive it a 95% of its potential and it handles as a sportscar it meant to. A Ferrari is alot more fun and thrilling. The problem is that on open roads you cannot use even 60% of potential, unless you are mad. On track you can, but now the quesion is if you are able. For someone that is able, he doesn't need to look at the GT86, but for most of us it is the first step before driving a Porsche 911 GT3 or Ferrari V8 as it should be driven.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by PuGZoR

True, true. Sorry, we don't get any fun parts over here in AU. To me, having an intercooler like that attached to the supercharger would make things a bit annoying. Not only is it going to suffer from a lot of heatsoak due to basically being mounted on the engine, but I'm guessing it'd restrict a bit of access to other parts of the engine. You'd really have to have the water/coolant circulating quickly to get around this and would probably be better off having a secondary cooler/radiator somewhere else to get that coolant back to ambient. Not saying it wouldn't work, just saying that the intercooler would probably be fairly inefficient for the extra cost and complication it would add.

If they use a rotrex style centrifugal supercharger, intercooling wouldn't be an issue.

[djdnz]

Originally Posted by cassidy0998

This car is a generic template, we are free to do with it what we wish.

Preeeeecisely.