Scion FR-S OFFICIALLY REVEALED (Details, Specs + Live and Press Photos)

[EDub]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Your argument of BRZ cannibalization doesn't hold up in the rest of the world where the GT86 will compete against the BRZ with much of the same base equipment.

Also all the stuff is already there, there's no development cost making the stuff for the frs, all the cars are being built in the same plant. Basically just have to check it off on a list and you could have all the same stuff.

[kenny9438]

i really like the car so far! Scion kept more than i expected. although i will miss the switches... They make me feel like driving a fighter jet :p

[Syldrin]

Function > Form

i hope people realize that the hvac unit is the same shape as the better looking one and i am willing to bet it has the same damn connector on the back. i may be optimistic but i doubt they changed the wiring harness to for different hvac controlls. i bet there is a plug behind the hvac unit not doing anything and is there for dual climate control.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by bambbrose

Anybody else hoping that the FR-S comes in significantly lighter than the BRZ?

List of potential weight savings:
-HVAC
-Power/Heat/Fabric in seats
-Sound deadening
-Mirrors
-Audio (no premium amp)
-Headlights


I'm really hoping that the FR-S comes in significantly lighter, as this has implications on the autox classes excluding SM and above. For STS and Stock classes, this could be a nice advantage over the BRZ.

HVAC difference = a temp sensor inside the car and maybe some minor weight differences in the units themselves because of the displays.

Fabric weight will be similar, I didn't see power seats on the 86/BRZ but maybe they are there (never actually looked I just assumed they'd be manually adjusted).. I'd prefer manual so hopefully not. Seat heating elements MIGHT be a couple of lbs.

Sound deadening should be the same, we haven't heard any rumors of differences there.

Mirrors? You mean the frame vs frameless (which we don't even know if the US BRZ comes with).. those have to be close to equal in weight. If the frameless is the same minus the frame then the FR-S one would be heavier, not lighter.

Audio.. they each have 8 speakers, just a different headunit. Most likely both systems are just 4 channel head units with a built in amp... the display/nav system will weight more, but again.. we are talking ounces to maybe a pound here.

Headlights, both cars have them. The balasts and such will add a little weight to the BRZ.. I'd give you maybe a couple of lbs.

So from those differences I'd guess a 10lb difference at the most.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by BronxBomber13

Does no one read the news? The Japanese yen is worth much more than our u.s. dollar. Toyota has lost MILLIONS just converting their profit into yen. Thats why we get the cheaper cars. If our version of the 86 was equal to theirs, it would cost so much more than the low 20's where it's expected. It's not toyotas fault, it's the governments fault, so get off this forum, and join OWS if you want to complain about it.

There's an OWS thread already, take that to there if you want to discuss the failure of the PEOPLE.

[Chupacabra]

Originally Posted by CoryUyede

People who dont know what this car is can have their tc's and whatever other fwd tuner they think is "cool". I also dont wanna see people driving the same car as me who dont appreciate it for what it is.

I agree, the unappreciative should purchase another car that's a driving appliance. I want to be the only guy around here autocrossing for a little bit, but will welcome with open arms another FR-S/ BRZ driver to compete with.

[CoryUyede]

Originally Posted by deejaytnk

You are right about the marketing has already been set when the car was converted to a FRS when hitting the states. However do you agree with me that if the 86 came into the US as Toyota 86 with the same JDM gear, with a bigger price tag that sales would be better because there is slim risk with the focused market.

By introducing as a FRS, yes grandmas and brainless chick drivers are put into the mix of buyers. However isn't Toyota jeopardizing the their sales with real auto enthusiasts to Subaru for the BRZ.

As proof, I do not mind spending $24K (BRZ premium) which is probably $3K more than the monospec FRS (speculating it to be at about $21K). To even summing how Scion is fucked up is that even when buying the $21K FRS, a lot people will add on the wheel, audio, and unnecessary accessories which mounts to $24K anyways. The downturn is that the FRS with add-ons still have the cheapo center consoles of stupid Scion knobs and gauges.

Bottom line FRS will profit a lot from stupid buyers like grandma and chick "on the whim" buyers who are unaware of the scam. However they will lose sales to smart auto enthusiasts which will are probably 4:1 (guesstimate) ratio of enthusiasts vs non-enthusiasts due to unappealing unsafe RWD, no rear room, uncomfortable racing seats.

Basically Scion fucked us tuners to earn an extra penny, which they probably wouldn't get from old grandma anyways, hehe...

i do agree with you for the most part. I also believe that no matter HOW the scion is or ends up being equipped, that "certain" people will buy it Because it looks "sick"...or is "Cute and Small".I've even met people who buy cars based on what colors they come in. This car could look butt ugly, i'd still want it. Lets face it, the outside is gorgeous, and when it comes to Vanity, US is king of the world....everything here is image driven..and rationality and common sense is often put aside. I'm on the fence about cheaper fr-s vs. upgraded brz issue. I'm into being unique, so i'd rather put that money into "custom" things.

[ruskymx]

Originally Posted by Chupacabra

I believe though when they designed the FR-S for Scion, the intent was to keep it super grass-roots and not offer a premium trim in an effort to capture the new college graduate. The BRZ and the 86/ GT 86 globally will be priced for a more mature demographic and I would even say that the trim levels will be quite varied depending on the market where the car is being sold.

I'm hoping I make sense...if not I will be open to (positive and mature) feedback

I believe this is their idea from the start and reasoning behind the USDM getting the low spec as a Scion model and higher spec as a BRZ. I don't remember reading anywhere, (correct me if I am wrong), that Toyota saying that the GT-86 will never reach North America. It's possible, they may "test the waters" with the FR-S & BRZ and if all goes well, introduce the GT-86 in the US in 2014 or 2015. The main reason for Scion is to get a younger demographic into the "Toyota family". Other than Buick, Toyota has the oldest demographic of any manufacturer.

As for old people buying Scions, at least in my area, it rarely happens with the tC, but does happen often with the xD and especially the xB. My dealership just had a customer today that was in their 60's and were in a wheel chair. The xB worked perfectly for them as far as size and space for their wheel chair & I believe Toyota even offers consumers $1,000 of mobility assistance for customer that buy them to have them modified for wheel chairs, hand controls, etc.

I've worked at a Toyota dealership since 03/02 and we had Scion since 10/05. My experience is that the younger college kids want and buy the tC. They then crash them and drive insurance rates through the roof. 95% of the tC's I have sold over the years have been to Toyota's target demographic. On the contrary, 75-80% of the xB's have been to elderly people.

As for the FR-S, the way I see things playing out are a lot of people from many demographics are going to come in to see this car, but many will not purchase because of the RWD. (I live in northeastern PA) The fact of it being RWD I think is going to scare away many of the chicks and older people looking to buy the car because it is "cute", but it may not chase away the younger kids that think it looks cool. Those young kids with limited driving experience, especially with a RWD car will then crash many of these cars because they loose control. It will drive insurance rates up for everyone that buys this car. I think many parents won't let their kids buy this car because it's RWD. It's amazing how many people are anti-RWD in my area. My dealership also has Hyundai at the same location and I see many people shy away from the GC and somewhat the sdn for that very reason. All of the Genesis' that I have sold, each ones has another vehicle for winter use whether it's a 4wd/AWD or FWD.

Some of my post may be but I wanted to give you an idea of how things are in my area, but will be completely different in SoCal, the southeast, south west, etc.

I plan on buying an FR-S when it comes out and even being an employee, I'll be paying the price as all of you. It's nice to know that someone didn't get a "better deal" than you just because I work there etc. The only thing I can get better deals on are accessories as long as I don't include them into the financing and have them on a service RO (repair order) and pay for them separately. If I can't install the accessory myself, I will have a Toyota Master Tech that I am friends with, install it at his house for me for $20/hour.

Tip: Make friends with dealer mechanic that you trust. Find one that has been at the dealership for a long time. Some of the shorter term ones, will have the greater chance of being "shady". Many of them that I work with do "side work" for much less. Out of 14-15 techs at my dealership, there are probably 3-4 that I trust to do side work for me. I try to DIY all I can, but some stuff is over my head or I just don't have the time/tools/equipment/patience to do it.

:happy0180: Let us all be thankful that Toyota/Subaru/Scion have even given a car like this to enjoy no matter what "flavor" is your choice.

:paddl e:

Yeah, I'm excited to own one of these.

Ruskymx

[jimmillion]

^ well put my friend. You made some good points.

[Mari0]

While agree with you for the most part, I think you are overstating some of the #s. It might be area specific, but if anything, I see plenty of 30+ year olds driving tCs. Oh and just because you are old, doesn't mean you can drive...

[ruskymx]

Originally Posted by Mari0

While agree with you for the most part, I think you are overstating some of the #s. It might be area specific, but if anything, I see plenty of 30+ year olds driving tCs. Oh and just because you are old, doesn't mean you can drive...

I just guess at the numbers and percentages off the top of my head. I just went through my customer database of 979 customers and pulled some info.

tC: 18 sold AVG birth year = 1979.6
xB: 9 sold AVG birth year = 1962.8
xD: 3 sold AVG birth year = 1975.5
xA: 3 sold AVG birth year = 1959

When two people purchased the car, I averaged their age unless it was parent/child. I then just used the kids age because the car was for them.

I was close with my guesses. My data goes back to 2005 with Scion and their target demographic is 18-30 year olds. The xD was a younger base than I though, but only off a small sample. My entire dealership may give a better idea, but these are just my numbers. As you can see, Scions are a very low volume car. I did have one lady that bought a tC that was born in 1939 so that fits the Grandma scenario mentioned earlier. Take her out and the avg jumps to 1982.

I'm sure it varies greatly by area as well. The top selling Scion dealer in my area is lucky if they sell 10-12 per month. My dealership is about 5-6 when we have them. During the summer when we didn't have any, we sold 0.

Now the Solara, THAT was a chick/granny car. Menopause was a prerequisite to purchasing one of those...lol Sorry if I offended anyone that has ever owned one...

I agree 1,000,000,000% with being old and knowing how to drive comment. In many cases, it gets worse...lol



Ruskymx

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24

Am I the only one going crazy for that dark gray color?? maybe its the gray color i put on my TRD chop:

Is that sheet metal like the DeLorean? lol

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24

Dude just chill. Stop trying to change people's opinions. you've been on this thread for less than a month.

Let them haters hate! Many others are fine with it! Scion is a decent car brand, but others base their opinions on things that sometimes dont make sense. Just chill be cool and enjoy the forum. Don't be that guy that no one likes cuz he critisizes everyone lol.

good day

P.S. dont give us people from florida a bad name LOL

Fixed,

Originally Posted by spin9k

My 2.5c

- Radio looks as from Chrylser - delete it - who listens to crappy radio anyways?
- Liking simple HAVC controls - GT86 HU was 90's revisited IMO w/red digi displays.
- Dual climate controls? - Give me a break - 2 peps barely fit side by side in the car.
- As always, gauges? Where tahell are the gauges? Ans: IDIOT's lites & Y/N dials!
- No stupid PBS - loving the analog - stick the key in the hole start idea - how retro!
- Nice! - No ugly fender inserts. Who came up w/dumb idea on new cars anyway?
- Nice fender emblem and a vent? - simple, elegant, best of the 3.
- No ugly Subaru/Mazda style front bar - yea! Lic plate ruin the look.
- Easy to mod to brake ducts lower fascia.
- Best taillights! Just add LED bulbs everywhere for those edisons.
- Mono textured dash hides the 'cheapie and obvious' air bag panels of others.
- Give me steelies - as w/others, guess they got a special deal on ug wheels!
- Backseat screams 'dirt cheap' - but really it's only a flat floor shelf anyway.
- Emerg brake on my side - in the way - should be on pass side - dumb.
- Make mine $19,999 and I'm good.

>$22,000 is too much for this thing. I understand with a car like this, less is more, but there is only so much I'd pay for "less" car.

Originally Posted by madfast

which is exactly my point. for those of you who are old enough to be around before scion, the brand was thought of to be a tuner car brand for the young. what ended up happening is a bunch of rebadged boxy or quirky toyotas with a bunch of appearance options. who bought these cars? old people. i shit you not. the tC was a great addition to the scion lineup but again, it didnt go far enough.

so what im saying is that the FR-S is the last straw. if this built from the ground up sports car cannot make scion into an "enthusiast brand" then nothing will. does scion need to be an enthusiast brand? imo, yes! sales are going down. the only thing it has going for it is low price and toyota reliability. that can only go so far with the rise of hyundai. they MUST use the FR-S as a catalyst to replace ALL of their models with FRESHLY styled models with modest performance and "fun to drive" character.

Amen.

Originally Posted by Andy

Americans need to quit crying

You get the cars LOTS cheaper then almost every other country, especially the UK

You get fuel cheaper than almost every country, for example in the UK we pay £4.92 which is $7.72 for the equivelant of 1 US Gallon

Anyone in the USA pay $7.72 per gallon of gas as you call it?


So you get get a bit less spec, for a lot less money


For example RAV4 (using todays prices from toyota USA/UK website.)
in the USA from $22475 =£14,326.65
in the UK from £22870 = $35,877.41

so quite a difference for the same car?

You took Economics in high school right? 88,000 Toyotas were sold in the UK in 2010. 1,590,000 Toyotas were sold in the US in 2010. That means for every one car sold in the UK 18 cars were sold in the US. With a demand that high, how could you really expect to pay the same for a Toyota in the UK as we pay here in the US? :happy0180:

I can't even imagine the difference between our countries respective fuel consumption figures. Buy larger quantities and you save more per unit, don't you guys have Sam's Clubs over there in the UK?

[CoryUyede]

Originally Posted by ruskymx

I just guess at the numbers and percentages off the top of my head. I just went through my customer database of 979 customers and pulled some info.

tC: 18 sold AVG birth year = 1979.6
xB: 9 sold AVG birth year = 1962.8
xD: 3 sold AVG birth year = 1975.5
xA: 3 sold AVG birth year = 1959

When two people purchased the car, I averaged their age unless it was parent/child. I then just used the kids age because the car was for them.

I was close with my guesses. My data goes back to 2005 with Scion and their target demographic is 18-30 year olds. The xD was a younger base than I though, but only off a small sample. My entire dealership may give a better idea, but these are just my numbers. As you can see, Scions are a very low volume car. I did have one lady that bought a tC that was born in 1939 so that fits the Grandma scenario mentioned earlier. Take her out and the avg jumps to 1982.

I'm sure it varies greatly by area as well. The top selling Scion dealer in my area is lucky if they sell 10-12 per month. My dealership is about 5-6 when we have them. During the summer when we didn't have any, we sold 0.

Now the Solara, THAT was a chick/granny car. Menopause was a prerequisite to purchasing one of those...lol Sorry if I offended anyone that has ever owned one...

I agree 1,000,000,000% with being old and knowing how to drive comment. In many cases, it gets worse...lol



Ruskymx

lol

[rmagic]

I don't know...the way I look at it is that either we are enthusiasts of this car or we are just fans of sports cars in general. Personally, I think there is really no difference. The way this car is first introduced to the world makes you feel there is something very special about to come out. After waiting for more than 2 years, I still think this is a special car but at the same time Toyota just didn't do a good job by presenting the vehicle in North America from Scion. And Scion or Toyota did a poor job in the design of the interior of this car for North America. I know some of you guys are ok with it, but it doesn't mean they can do a lousy job after having people wait so long to get this car. I think there is a difference between making something cheaper and designing something in a cheap way. Anyway I don't want to get into an argument about this. But I believe selling cars is about packaging it right. Even some cars are as good as this car but if you don't package it the right way you will lose the customers. Not everybody is looking for just performance or just look. If Scion doesn't offer a different packaging, I'm pretty sure lots of people will prefer to buy a subaru. I'm still looking forward to test driving this car and buying it if this car is special enough and worth the wait as Toyota had promised .