MT etiquette... don't hate me!

[M-17]

Originally Posted by Anthonytpt

I don't waste any time between shifts, so I don't understand letting the RPM drop. The only thing I needed to calibrate was my muscle memory for clutch engagement - the rest seems to follow and improve the more the car's driven. Perhaps you're putting too much thought into shifting, so the resulting delay is causing a jerky ride?

I think that's my problem as well. Sometimes I over think it and forget to just go with the flow when I am driving a m/t.

[D4S]

2nd will always feel rough, that's how the gearbox works. For the rest, shift fast, let the clutch up 15% of the way, give it some gas before and it feels like an auto. Save the rev matching for heel-toe.

[Bach415]

Originally Posted by Anthonytpt

I don't waste any time between shifts, so I don't understand letting the RPM drop. The only thing I needed to calibrate was my muscle memory for clutch engagement - the rest seems to follow and improve the more the car's driven. Perhaps you're putting too much thought into shifting, so the resulting delay is causing a jerky ride?

RPM dropping is like rev matching but for upshift. Instead of revving the engine to a higher rpm, you just let it drop instead.

[FReSh]

Generally, if im hooning around and shifting from 1 to 2 right before redline, I'll just shift quickly (usually quicker than the rpm can drop) and 2nd gear will give a little chirp of the rear tires when it engages... Obviously, this isn't the best thing to do, but I don't do it often. Eventually with enough practice of normal driving you'll get used to when to shift and how quickly to shift in order to get a completely smooth change of gears with no jerking or clutch burning. Just give it some time and you'll figure it out.

[CrazyWookiee]

You'll just have to experiment to get it right. Like everyone above said, it is trickier to master, but after you experiment and get the rpm's to fall in the perfect range or get a feel for how much time there is between gears, then you'll feel extremely rewarded in this vehicle. To get the upshift to fall properly in line shift after shift while going through the gears, you'll definitely know you're doing it right.

[TRD_07]

This might help you a bit.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31929

[ftc~brz]

Originally Posted by NOMNOM

I'm probably using the term incorrectly, I just dont know any better. TOLD YOU NOT TO GET MAD AT ME.

I just mean when I try to let my rmps drop to the perfect amount, I seem to miss and feel like an idiot when it jolts a bit. Just wanted to know if I should keep trying till I "get it right" or if I should be giving it a slower gas/clutch transition.

no worries, rev matching has its place and time. I didn't notice you had said up shift...we knew what you meant.

Try driving with the radio off and listening to the car itself for a few days.

In all honesty I don't look at my cluster for rpms. I learned to drive stick in a v8 stang which is a blessing and a curse but after my crash corse from my mom on basics, I figured out on my own how to hear when to shift. do it long enough and you will know how fast/slow you are going by the sound alone.

That clutch I learned on lasted 80k. There was bucking, stalling, and clutch burning all involved in the early days! So don't get to frustrated when feeling out your comfort zone on a new car. Everyone grinds or rides once in a while.

I barely ever have the radio on because I love to listen to the vehicle.

warning: This may cause you to delete the sound tube and get an intake and that is how it all begins!

Don't over think it. Just do what feels right to you

[Sonolin]

This thread is helpful. I have a small question though.

This is my first M/T car, and generally I can get the gear changes smooth enough. The one thing I still have a problem with is starting from stop & driving around slowly in parking lots.

1) When starting from a stop, I usually give the car a little gas just before the clutch engages. I'm talking like 1.5k-2k rpm gas. Is this bad for the clutch? I also notice, sometimes on hills I give it a little more gas and let off the clutch a little faster to get me going before it rolls back. Is this bad practice? Should I instead learn to give it gas exactly when the clutch starts to engage? (If I do this, the car usually either shakes a lot or stalls out, but sometimes I can get this smooth.)

2) When driving around parking lots, I'm always confused which gear to put the car in. I've heard "never put the car in 1st while moving", so I try not to. But its hard when my speeds are really low (~5mph damn speed bumps) to keep it in second (the car tends to "shake" a lot that low) so I tend to put it in first sometimes when going that slow. Which is better?


Thanks... sorry if they're stupid questions this is just my first M/T car and its kind of scary sometimes as I don't want to hurt my baby

EDIT: Sorry for the I figured its easier to just ask here than start a new topic

[Want.FR-S]

Originally Posted by Sonolin

This thread is helpful. I have a small question though.
...
1) When starting from a stop, I usually give the car a little gas just before the clutch engages. I'm talking like 1.5k-2k rpm gas. Is this bad for the clutch? I also notice, sometimes on hills I give it a little more gas and let off the clutch a little faster to get me going before it rolls back. Is this bad practice? Should I instead learn to give it gas exactly when the clutch starts to engage? (If I do this, the car usually either shakes a lot or stalls out, but sometimes I can get this smooth.)

2) When driving around parking lots, I'm always confused which gear to put the car in. I've heard "never put the car in 1st while moving", so I try not to. But its hard when my speeds are really low (~5mph damn speed bumps) to keep it in second (the car tends to "shake" a lot that low) so I tend to put it in first sometimes when going that slow. Which is better?

That is three questions in 1). My take: yes, no, no. Ideally, when you start, you do not need to press gas when you just release the clutch. Here is a trick I used to practice and still use in stop-n-go traffic or parking lot cruising: when car is stopped, shift into first, release the clutch slowly until it starts to bite (engagement point) and release it gently to get the car moving in idling speed *without gas*. If done correctly, the car will move slowly just like that in automatic transmission. So for your first part of the question, you do not need to rev to 1.5/2k before you release the clutch. That wears the clutch a bit.

In hill start, you have to press gas and release the clutch around the engagement point almost at the same time to get pickup and not rolling down. So the second part to your question is no.

The last part of your first question, I would say no because if done right, you do not need to press gas when you *just* release the clutch at engagement point. You should press the gas *after* the clutch bites fully for not riding the clutch. However, if you want a *fast* start, you should press gas just when the clutch starts to bite, and that should give you a good start.

2) I seems to remember there were some threads about it is very hard to shift into 1st gear while the car is moving in *the twins*. Ideally, you should be able to shift into 1st gear while the car is moving slowly *and the clutch is pressed*. There is nothing wrong to move in 1st gear in ~5mph speed, as long as you do not rev the engine high and trying to shift to 1st without rev-matching.

[Sonolin]

Originally Posted by Want.FR-S

That is three questions in 1). My take: yes, no, no. Ideally, when you start, you do not need to press gas when you just release the clutch. Here is a trick I used to practice and still use in stop-n-go traffic or parking lot cruising: when car is stopped, shift into first, release the clutch slowly until it starts to bite (engagement point) and release it gently to get the car moving in idling speed *without gas*. If done correctly, the car will move slowly just like that in automatic transmission. So for your first part of the question, you do not need to rev to 1.5/2k before you release the clutch. That wears the clutch a bit.

In hill start, you have to press gas and release the clutch around the engagement point almost at the same time to get pickup and not rolling down. So the second part to your question is no.

The last part of your first question, I would say no because if done right, you do not need to press gas when you *just* release the clutch at engagement point. You should press the gas *after* the clutch bites fully for not riding the clutch. However, if you want a *fast* start, you should press gas just when the clutch starts to bite, and that should give you a good start.

2) I seems to remember there were some threads about it is very hard to shift into 1st gear while the car is moving in *the twins*. Ideally, you should be able to shift into 1st gear while the car is moving slowly *and the clutch is pressed*. There is nothing wrong to move in 1st gear in ~5mph speed, as long as you do not rev the engine high and trying to shift to 1st without rev-matching.

Thanks very much! That pretty much answers all my questions!

I think I'll just have to play with the clutch a little more. I seem to never be able to get this car to go without any gas - but I know what your saying, as I test drove a mustang gt that I could pretty much get going with 0 gas.

For the 2nd question - your saying I should rev match down to first right? That's probably my problem - I have a habit of not rev matching when I get to really slow speeds. I guess I'll just have to fix that!

Thanks again

[Bach415]

Originally Posted by Sonolin

Thanks very much! That pretty much answers all my questions!

I think I'll just have to play with the clutch a little more. I seem to never be able to get this car to go without any gas - but I know what your saying, as I test drove a mustang gt that I could pretty much get going with 0 gas.

For the 2nd question - your saying I should rev match down to first right? That's probably my problem - I have a habit of not rev matching when I get to really slow speeds. I guess I'll just have to fix that!

Thanks again

You can get the car going with 0 gas. It's all about clutch pedal work. Rev match down to first can be a little difficult but it's better when you are coming to stop than just throwing it into neutral. If you are just rolling, just stay in 2nd gear.

[Sonolin]

Originally Posted by Bach415

You can get the car going with 0 gas. It's all about clutch pedal work. Rev match down to first can be a little difficult but it's better when you are coming to stop than just throwing it into neutral. If you are just rolling, just stay in 2nd gear.

Why is it better to go to 1st when stopping, rather than straight into neutral?

From what I've heard the main advantage is to always be in gear. But is this better on the transmission?

[Enraged21]

Originally Posted by mashal

Da fuq? How does one rev match up shifts ?

I rev match into 5th gear sometimes because when I'm clutched in, the revs have dropped enough where if I release the clutch itll lugg the engine. So I rev match it so I can clutch out into the proper RPM

[Enraged21]

Originally Posted by Bach415

You can get the car going with 0 gas. It's all about clutch pedal work. Rev match down to first can be a little difficult but it's better when you are coming to stop than just throwing it into neutral. If you are just rolling, just stay in 2nd gear.

Wouldnt you be just using your clutch more and putting more wear and tear by downshifting at every light, even into first?

I always thought it would be easier on the clutch to just put into neutral then coast into stop.