Form > Function

[coyote]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i have serious doubts that would have happened with decent suspension.

That same crash? Possibly not.

Would that tool have crashed somewhere else? Almost certainly.

[Outlawstar98]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i have serious doubts that would have happened with decent suspension.

Really? Ive seen this happen to many o' jacka$$es in stock cars.... it is the crappy driver not the suspension. Also everyone with the stock BRZ/FRS should replace those tires on the stock wheel because they have no grip, that is also a safety issue. I am running -2 in the rear with a 245 tire right now and I get more grip. It is a "flush" setup so not crazy camber but most issues with crashes, 99.9% i'd honestly say are due to the DRIVER and not the car, if you look in that video that guy was driving like a a$$.

[m.box.design]

hella flush reminds me of these drawings from the 90s.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by EarlQHan

The M3 is a street car, the Koenigsegg is also a street car, but point taken.

the m3 has a rollbar so its not really a street car since thats not really safe without the helmet and proper restraints. as for the koenigsegg, yeah its a street car but more importantly its a koenigsegg. either way, those were all those cars looked functional but also cool.

Originally Posted by coyote

That same crash? Possibly not.

Would that tool have crashed somewhere else? Almost certainly.

im not trying to give the driver any credit. im just pointing out that the cars suspension looks to be a huge part of why that crash happened.

Originally Posted by Outlawstar98

Really? Ive seen this happen to many o' jacka$$es in stock cars.... it is the crappy driver not the suspension. Also everyone with the stock BRZ/FRS should replace those tires on the stock wheel because they have no grip, that is also a safety issue. I am running -2 in the rear with a 245 tire right now and I get more grip. It is a "flush" setup so not crazy camber but most issues with crashes, 99.9% i'd honestly say are due to the DRIVER and not the car, if you look in that video that guy was driving like a a$$.

im not saying that low grip is going to be dangerous. its not provided that you are aware of it and drive accordingly. the problem is that cars arent engineered to be used in this manner and because of that the levels of grip change dramatically and without warning.

your numbers dont really tell us anything meaningful since the majority of cars are "safe." i would expect that the majority of crashes arent from issues the majority of cars dont have. more people die from getting out of bed than they do from shark attacks. do i believe that beds are more dangerous than sharks? no.

[plucas]

Originally Posted by fatoni

none of those cars are designed to deal with speed bumps. also, none of those cars are running crazy amounts of camber. they all look good but i think a lot of the people are getting frustrated with the "double the camber means double the racecar" looks.

More camber does increase cornering stiffness and grip (to a certain point). It does cause thermal issues and a decreasing contact patch. Most modern racecars have a lot of camber gain built into the suspension so large static camber is not needed. However most mcpherson strut cars are not built this way so more static negative camber is needed. <-- suspension isn't my focus so this is just my 0.02

[coyote]

Originally Posted by fatoni

im not trying to give the driver any credit. im just pointing out that the cars suspension looks to be a huge part of why that crash happened.

more people die from getting out of bed than they do from shark attacks. do i believe that beds are more dangerous than sharks? no.

If you're saying the video is analogous to the danger involved in getting into an unsafe bed with a shark, then I agree.

That would be a silly thing to do, but I'm sure if you suggested that people would point and call you a narrow minded hater.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by plucas

More camber does increase cornering stiffness and grip (to a certain point). It does cause thermal issues and a decreasing contact patch. Most modern racecars have a lot of camber gain built into the suspension so large static camber is not needed. However most mcpherson strut cars are not built this way so more static negative camber is needed. <-- suspension isn't my focus so this is just my 0.02

i know where youre coming from. the issue is that the people doing this to their cars are not running around in race cars. the amounts of camber have likely passed the point of being helpful and generate worse contact patch designs. they arent running race rubber and they arent on racetracks either.

[dsgerbc]

Lol, teh reaction of "artists" in this thread is amusing. If you can't handle people talking crap about your "art" - keep that "art" in your basement. Of course kids these days aren't prepared for the realities of life, used to getting awards for mediocre crap since grade school.

[ill roller]

Originally Posted by fatoni

the m3 has a rollbar so its not really a street car since thats not really safe without the helmet and proper restraints. as for the koenigsegg, yeah its a street car but more importantly its a koenigsegg. either way, those were all those cars looked functional but also cool.

I personally know that M3, and it is a daily driven streetcar that sees occasional track time... It has a rollbar, buckets, and harnesses.

Sometimes I feel like most people on this forum are more concerned with what they read in an SCCA rule book than actually driving their cars.

I have a full cage in my IS300 and it is 100% a streetcar. I also smoke. I live dangerously.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ill roller

I work for the company that built that M3, and it is a daily driven streetcar that sees occasional track time... It has a rollbar, buckets, and harnesses.

Sometimes I feel like most people on this forum are more concerned with what they read in an SCCA rule book than actually driving their cars.

I have a full cage in my IS300 and it is 100% a streetcar. I also smoke. I live dangerously.

cages in street cars are stupid especially since the safety items they are designed to work with are not street legal. i cant think of a single benefit to a cage in a street car but i can think of some serious downsides. im not trying to tell you what you can and cant do but you arent going to convince me that it makes sense.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Lol, teh reaction of "artists" in this thread is amusing. If you can't handle people talking crap about your "art" - keep that "art" in your basement. Of course kids these days aren't prepared for the realities of life, used to getting awards for mediocre crap since grade school.

And going to liberal arts colleges.


Hey wait a minute...

[ill roller]

Originally Posted by fatoni

cages in street cars are stupid especially since the safety items they are designed to work with are not street legal. i cant think of a single benefit to a cage in a street car but i can think of some serious downsides. im not trying to tell you what you can and cant do but you arent going to convince me that it makes sense.

It makes sense for a car that sees track time... I don't get what's sO difficult to understand.

Jesus, why do you people even own sports cars? I've heard that prius's are very safe, and you can save the world by going green... Let me guess, you're deathly opposed to jaywalking too?

[Mr.Jay]

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ill roller

It makes sense for a car that sees track time... I don't get what's sO difficult to understand.

Jesus, why do you people even own sports cars? I've heard that prius's are very safe, and you can save the world by going green... Let me guess, you're deathly opposed to jaywalking too?

what kind of racing do you do with your daily driver that requires a rollcage?