Can the FR-S trasmission Rev-match?

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

Right now we have several cars;

The BRZ in SCCA T4
MazdaSpeed 3 in SCCA STU
Mazda2 in Grand Am
Mazda 3 in T4
World Challange Mazda 6

I won the SCCA SSC RunOffs, as well as the Triple Crown in the Mazda 3 in 2008.

So yes I do have the chops to back up what I say.

Look, I did not mean to offend. Someone asked a simple question and I answered it. I agree that you should not try to learn this type of thing from the internet, but you should also not try to learn it from someone like the average track instructor. Go find the best there is, and chase him around the track for a while. If you don't ask stupid questions, or act like an ass, most of the really good drivers will give you a pointer, or show you how to go faster.

But above all, the most important thing to remember about driving, and getting better is simple; seat time, seat time, seat time. The more you drive, the more mistakes you make, the more you learn.

Since you kept referring to your "race car" in singular form I was expecting to hear of you r Xtrac Equipped Vehicle...

So since the internet, as you acknowledged, is the wrong place to learn this, you thought it best to post information anyway so that the under-informed of the world could go shatter their syncros...good on you bro...WTF

Explain to me (since I'm obviously stupid) how to learn shifting techniques by following a car around track? (i feel so stupid for having to ask, I'm sure it's obvious)


To touch on your other spout of brilliance... I am not an instructor, I'm not really even a great driver, just learning in the deepend. But that isn't to say that CalClub (my local SCCA region) doesn't have some very top notch Instructors on hand at all the HPDE/Time Trials sessions I have attended, many of them having won Nats or Regional titles in their day, truth be told most instructors here in SoCal have a fair amount of Professional driving experience, making them a great resource for the intricacies of navigating the track and learning all there is to get the most from your car. The fastest line, maybe not, the best setup advice...most likely no, but valuable info that can be applied to any car you get in and drive, and that is what an instructor is there to do, teach you the basics so you aren't out there learning the hard way, after all perfecting a line is a personal achievement, learning how not to shatter your transmission is a little more black and white.


For me to have to explain to you what happens when you slam brass (or fiber reinforced) syncros into each other because the Rev match wasn't perfect, leads me to believe you really aren't sure what happens in a transmission,,,yet another reason you shouldn't be here telling people how to rev match...next time somebody asks the easiest way to kill a manual transmission I recommend you repost your instructions and tell them to have a newbie drive...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

Yes, and national championships. And you?

I don't race. My budget doesn't allow for it. But, I am one of those HPDE instructors.

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

why? you ever try it? If you practice and have any feel for the car, its not hard on the gear box, and it is far faster

I'd love to get some data on long term wear and tear. Any in-car video demonstrating the speed of this type of shifting?

[norsamerican]

[Dynotronics1]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

Since you kept referring to your "race car" in singular form I was expecting to hear of you r Xtrac Equipped Vehicle...

So since the internet, as you acknowledged, is the wrong place to learn this, you thought it best to post information anyway so that the under-informed of the world could go shatter their syncros...good on you bro...WTF

Explain to me (since I'm obviously stupid) how to learn shifting techniques by following a car around track? (i feel so stupid for having to ask, I'm sure it's obvious)


To touch on your other spout of brilliance... I am not an instructor, I'm not really even a great driver, just learning in the deepend. But that isn't to say that CalClub (my local SCCA region) doesn't have some very top notch Instructors on hand at all the HPDE/Time Trials sessions I have attended, many of them having won Nats or Regional titles in their day, truth be told most instructors here in SoCal have a fair amount of Professional driving experience, making them a great resource for the intricacies of navigating the track and learning all there is to get the most from your car. The fastest line, maybe not, the best setup advice...most likely no, but valuable info that can be applied to any car you get in and drive, and that is what an instructor is there to do, teach you the basics so you aren't out there learning the hard way, after all perfecting a line is a personal achievement, learning how not to shatter your transmission is a little more black and white.


For me to have to explain to you what happens when you slam brass (or fiber reinforced) syncros into each other because the Rev match wasn't perfect, leads me to believe you really aren't sure what happens in a transmission,,,yet another reason you shouldn't be here telling people how to rev match...next time somebody asks the easiest way to kill a manual transmission I recommend you repost your instructions and tell them to have a newbie drive...

you need to very carefully re read what I wrote; lift neutral, blip, snick, and go to paraphrase for you. Please notice the "blip", as that would be your rev match. But, if its not how you wish to shift your transmission, or drive your car, its up to you. Nice thing about it is it YOUR car, nobody can tell you how to drive it

BTW, synros don't go "together" they run in the hub.

and since you mention it, both the WC mazda6 and the Speed 3 have Xtrac gearboxes

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

you need to very carefully re read what I wrote; lift neutral, blip, snick, and go to paraphrase for you. Please notice the "blip", as that would be your rev match. But, if its not how you wish to shift your transmission, or drive your car, its up to you. Nice thing about it is it YOUR car, nobody can tell you how to drive it

BTW, synros don't go "together" they run in the hub.

and since you mention it, both the WC mazda6 and the Speed 3 have Xtrac gearboxes

Maybe in a single Syncro gearbox...


You realize what thread you are posting in, (rhetorical obviously you don't)

If the OP knew the magic amount of Blip that needed to be used we wouldn't be here, so back in reality, if you have the Rev match wrong and shift without a clutch you are asking significantly more of the syncros than was ever intended by the Manufacturer, I'm sorry you don't understand that and there is obviously little that can be done about that scenario,,, you are describing a technique that is best used (if at all) on track. That was not and is not the intent of the OP, as near as I can tell...do you feel like a big boy now?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

you need to very carefully re read what I wrote; lift neutral, blip, snick, and go to paraphrase for you. Please notice the "blip", as that would be your rev match. But, if its not how you wish to shift your transmission, or drive your car, its up to you. Nice thing about it is it YOUR car, nobody can tell you how to drive it

BTW, synros don't go "together" they run in the hub.

and since you mention it, both the WC mazda6 and the Speed 3 have Xtrac gearboxes

Your dogbox shifting doesn't translate to the transmission that comes with a FR-S/BRZ. So, why are you telling people to do it? I doubt anyone here has a dog box in their FRS/BRZ.

My googling shows the xtrac to most likely be a dog box. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Dynotronics1]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I don't race. My budget doesn't allow for it. But, I am one of those HPDE instructors.



I'd love to get some data on long term wear and tear.

As I said, I'm sure there are good instuctors out there, but I have not met any that impressed me. I'm sure your not in that group. And I understand the budget limits cutting into your driving, its the same at every level, never enough money!

The long term wear and tear data? Send me an email, Ill forward you the teardown logs on both the Asian Gearboxes we ran in 2005-2009. These have the same synco design as the Subi box, and the tq ratings on the engine are simular.

Generally speaking we would get 15 race weekends out of a transmission before it timed out and was rebuild. With test days thats about 4000-5000 race/track miles between teardowns. We would replace syncos on 2 and 3 at every other teardown as scheduled maintenance with the syncos from 4 and 5, renewing the higher gear rings with fresh.

[Dynotronics1]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Your dogbox shifting doesn't translate to the transmission that comes with a FR-S/BRZ. So, why are you telling people to do it? I doubt anyone here has a dog box in their FRS/BRZ.

My googling shows the xtrac to most likely be a dog box. Correct me if I'm wrong.

yes your wrong! Look a few posts up and you will see that I am talking here about a stardard type transmission here. I only mentioned the xtrac because the skill learned on a full synco,cone style box, to shift cluchless, translates nicely to an xtrax. I did not mean to confuse the issue.

[Dynotronics1]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

Maybe in a single Syncro gearbox...


You realize what thread you are posting in, (rhetorical obviously you don't)

If the OP knew the magic amount of Blip that needed to be used we wouldn't be here, so back in reality, if you have the Rev match wrong and shift without a clutch you are asking significantly more of the syncros than was ever intended by the Manufacturer, I'm sorry you don't understand that and there is obviously little that can be done about that scenario,,, you are describing a technique that is best used (if at all) on track. That was not and is not the intent of the OP, as near as I can tell...do you feel like a big boy now?

no but it would appear that you do.

So let me ask you something, since you seem to be a transmission expert; can you explain what it is that makes you think this is a bad way to shift a fully synco gearbox? If you were to remove the syncos from that box, and shift the same way, would you assume this was easier on that box?

[CSG Mike]

This was never a track/race level discussion, which is why I'm confused as to why a high-wear (abusive for street use) technique would be brought in... (clutchless shifting)

I still don't see the speed benefit; you have to wait for the engine revs to drop, whereas using the clutch, you can force it to drop.

[Justin.b]

I usually heel-toe or blip when downshifting on the street. I'm nowhere near the limits that would justify those, I just like to and I have wide feet so it's not that difficult.

I don't find the FR-S's motor as responsive to the gently blip that will send my Miata's revs up. I love the car, but the engine feels like it belongs in a tractor at lower revs. I've actually ended up stalling it after driving the miata for a few days.

-Justin

[schlomo]

synco
synco
synco

[Chewie4299]

For me it's less about matching the revs with what I expect them to be. That of course is what I am doing but I approach it differently. What I do (while it is no different) is focus on timing. It's all second nature now. I basically blip the throttle with my foot at the appropriate speed for the revs to have matched by the time I'm done shifting.

For any having trouble perhaps it can help to simply think about what you are trying to do from a different angle.

[Chad]

Originally Posted by Razor

I read a post that Rev-match is possible in the manual transmission FR-S.
Does anybody knows how to do it. I just can't heel-toe when shifting.

Found this is vid would be really helpful for you, the rev matching bit starts later in the video but I would recommend watching the whole thing.

This guy has a great channel too.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slBxtYWKdjo"]How to Drive Stick Shift and Rev Match in a BRZ! - YouTube[/ame]