Can the FR-S trasmission Rev-match?

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

lift,into neutral,blip,into next lower gear, on throttle. It sounds hard, but its all about practice. Once you have the tecHnique down, and you get the feel for the speed at which the engine accelerates(free rev), or decelerates, it becomes second nature.

The race car I currently drive has a sequentIal Xtrac, so this"feel" is sort of the lifeline of the gearbox. Downshift this gearbox wrong and your going to spend 8-10K$ replacing dogs and drive rings

As to why no HPDE instructor promotes this, I assume its because they don't know how to do it. After all, they are HPDE instructors, and most that I have seen can't drive that well, let alone teach driving

Really...why would you put such info here?

Not only did you not provide enough info for this technique you also offered no warnings about the potential implications,

Then to top it all off you , in one swift line of ignorance degrade all HPDE instructors to a level beneath you...A healthy EGO is useful some places in life, but you look alot like an armchair racing chump with statements like that. (and you can't spell anything apparently)


People do not listen to this advice, while it might have benefit in a full race vehicle, your transmission was not designed to be clutchlessly shifted...may it work??? sure...but it was not designed to be used in such a manner

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

This is the problem. You need to attend an HPDE event so you can learn about what you are attempting to teach.

You never "drop the clutch" anywhere near or after the apex. All your braking, clutching, blipping is done before the apex. The goal is to slow down, be in the right gear and be applying throttle through and after the apex.

Thank you for the correction. Now I know.

I dont "need" to attend an HPDE event. If I am interested in doing so, I might. I like the sporty car, even like drifting in parking lots, but the thought of wrecking my car on a track is a bit much for me. So, I doubt I will be involved in track events except maybe autocross.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Without reading any other posts...yes you can rev match. Push clutch pedal, press gas, select gear, release clutch pedal. That's not what you were asking about, but that's rev matching.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

The ecu calibration using RaceRom and having auto blip enabled, is a quasi rev match. However, whats the point? What most folks seem to forget is that the gearbox has very very good syncos, and that in truth there is no need to Rev match.

Now thats gonna rase a few eyebrows, and have a few folks calling me names, but I can tell you this; on a track type car, with warner, or porsche style syncos, I use the clutch to start, and to stop. Other than that, I left foot brake, and allow the trans to do its job.

Engine -> clutch -> midshaft -> transmission -> gear

Synchros bring up the midshaft to the speed appropriate to the wheels. If you don't revmatch, your clutch is bringing t he engine up to the wheels's speeds.

I feel bad for your drivetrain.

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

agreed, and a complete waste of time on the track also, again assuming you have syncos in the gearbox. Now on older crash box transmissions, this was a very useful skill to hone, as, like you point out, not doing so would upset the chassis from the resulting hop

You must like wasting time coasting.

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

lift,into neutral,blip,into next lower gear, on throttle. It sounds hard, but its all about practice. Once you have the tecnique down, and you get the feel for the speed at which the engine accelerates(free rev), or decelerates, it becomes second nature.

The race car I currently drive has a sequental Xtrac, so this"feel" is sort of the lifeline of the gearbox. Downshift this gearbox wrong and your going to spend 8-10K$ replacing dogs and drive rings

As to why no HPDE instructor promotes this, I assume its because they don't know how to do it. After all, they are HPDE instructors, and most that I have seen can't drive that well, let alone teach driving

I can do it too, but why would I want to add additional stress to the synchros? Not to mention, it's FAR SLOWER on track.

How quickly can you shift with a clutchless shift? I bet I can do a 6-5-4-3-2 faster than you can do a 6-2 without your clutch. That's 4 additional gear changes.

Less time in gear = less time spent accelerating.

Do you win races in your race car?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by naikaidriver

This is the post @SkullWorks is referring to.

This is completely WRONG and serves as a perfect example as to not look for HPD advice on the internet! This is a recipe for a crash!

The idea behind heel toe is to have your toes on the brake as you are coming into a corner and blipping the throttle with your heel to bump the revs up so that when you release the clutch, the input shaft on the transmission is spinning at the same speed as the flywheel. This is NOT the setup for exiting the turn as you should already be in the proper gear to exit and the clutch out BEFORE the apex and gradually, roll into the throttle as you exit.

This is not a technique for driving on the street.

Scott

Nice try.

The Blip is to bring the engine speed up to where it should be for when the clutch disengages. The input shaft on the transmission was already brought up to seed by the synchros on the gear. You need to double clutch heel-toe downshift to do what you described.

This is all assuming a typical production car manual transmission.

I do it every day during daily driving. That's why I have 120k miles on my s2000's clutch, and it STILL is going strong. Proper technique. The car has countless track days on it, and has time attack wins.

Please don't spread bad information.

[norsamerican]

[naikaidriver]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Nice try.

The Blip is to bring the engine speed up to where it should be for when the clutch disengages. The input shaft on the transmission was already brought up to seed by the synchros on the gear. You need to double clutch heel-toe downshift to do what you described.

This is all assuming a typical production car manual transmission.

I do it every day during daily driving. That's why I have 120k miles on my s2000's clutch, and it STILL is going strong. Proper technique. The car has countless track days on it, and has time attack wins.

Please don't spread bad information.

I apologize Mike, I defer to your expertise as you are much better at explaining these things than I am.

The only point that I was trying to get across is to actually go out and get personalized HPDE instruction and not try and take lessons from the internet. I just unwittingly contributed to the maelstrom of bad info being presented.

Thanks for the clarification.

Scott

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

lift,into neutral,blip,into next lower gear, on throttle. It sounds hard, but its all about practice. Once you have the tecnique down, and you get the feel for the speed at which the engine accelerates(free rev), or decelerates, it becomes second nature.

Uh .... I wouldn't be trying to get ordinary drivers (the majority of people on here) nor sunday track junkies to shift like this.

[russv]

Originally Posted by donutfilling

Goku can teach you to heel-toe.

Those purple shoes.....

[Dynotronics1]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Do you win races in your race car?

Yes, and national championships. And you?

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

Yes, and national championships. And you?

I believe he answered that question already...the main difference being we don't know what "race car" you race...

[Dynotronics1]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

Really...why would you put such info here?

Not only did you not provide enough info for this technique you also offered no warnings about the potential implications,

Then to top it all off you , in one swift line of ignorance degrade all HPDE instructors to a level beneath you...A healthy EGO is useful some places in life, but you look alot like an armchair racing chump with statements like that. (and you can't spell anything apparently)


People do not listen to this advice, while it might have benefit in a full race vehicle, your transmission was not designed to be clutchlessly shifted...may it work??? sure...but it was not designed to be used in such a manner

I was not refering to a race gear box when talking about the clutchless downshift.

Can you explain to me what it is you think is going to happen to the transmission using this type of shifting? Perhaps you could give an explaination of your conclusion that this is "bad".

As far as HPDE instructors go; I'm very sorry if I offended you, but this is the general consensus within the racing community. There are some good ones out there I am sure, but most are not worth the time it take to pass them on the track.I'm quite sure your not in that group, right? Then there is no need for you to take offence, is there?

[Dynotronics1]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

I believe he answered that question already...the main difference being we don't know what "race car" you race...

Right now we have several cars;

The BRZ in SCCA T4
MazdaSpeed 3 in SCCA STU
Mazda2 in Grand Am
Mazda 3 in T4
World Challange Mazda 6

I won the SCCA SSC RunOffs, as well as the Triple Crown in the Mazda 3 in 2008.

So yes I do have the chops to back up what I say.

Look, I did not mean to offend. Someone asked a simple question and I answered it. I agree that you should not try to learn this type of thing from the internet, but you should also not try to learn it from someone like the average track instructor. Go find the best there is, and chase him around the track for a while. If you don't ask stupid questions, or act like an ass, most of the really good drivers will give you a pointer, or show you how to go faster.

But above all, the most important thing to remember about driving, and getting better is simple; seat time, seat time, seat time. The more you drive, the more mistakes you make, the more you learn.

[Dynotronics1]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Uh .... I wouldn't be trying to get ordinary drivers (the majority of people on here) nor sunday track junkies to shift like this.

why? you ever try it? If you practice and have any feel for the car, its not hard on the gear box, and it is far faster