Can the FR-S trasmission Rev-match?

[Dynotronics1]

so I can't spell, thanks for pointing out the mistake...........

[naikaidriver]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Just blip the throttle when downshifting. Is sounds super sweet with my exhaust system.

Then there's heel and toe, where you blip, downshift and tap the brake at the same time to set up for acceleration out of a turn.

This is the post @SkullWorks is referring to.

This is completely WRONG and serves as a perfect example as to not look for HPD advice on the internet! This is a recipe for a crash!

The idea behind heel toe is to have your toes on the brake as you are coming into a corner and blipping the throttle with your heel to bump the revs up so that when you release the clutch, the input shaft on the transmission is spinning at the same speed as the flywheel. This is NOT the setup for exiting the turn as you should already be in the proper gear to exit and the clutch out BEFORE the apex and gradually, roll into the throttle as you exit.

This is not a technique for driving on the street.

Scott

[Dynotronics1]

Originally Posted by naikaidriver

This is the post @SkullWorks is referring to.

This is completely WRONG and serves as a perfect example as to not look for HPD advice on the internet! This is a recipe for a crash!

The idea behind heel toe is to have your toes on the brake as you are coming into a corner and blipping the throttle with your heel to bump the revs up so that when you release the clutch, the input shaft on the transmission is spinning at the same speed as the flywheel. This is NOT the setup for exiting the turn as you should already be in the proper gear to exit and the clutch out BEFORE the apex and gradually, roll into the throttle as you exit.

This is not a technique for driving on the street.

Scott

agreed, and a complete waste of time on the track also, again assuming you have syncos in the gearbox. Now on older crash box transmissions, this was a very useful skill to hone, as, like you point out, not doing so would upset the chassis from the resulting hop

[bdub85]

Originally Posted by naikaidriver

You don't need to heel-toe to rev match.

The only time that technique is useful when braking hard into a corner and downshifting to not upset the chassis or break the drive wheels loose.

If you're seriously interested in learning race driving techniques, stay away from the internet, turn off our computer and go find a local SCCA club that does High Performance Driver Education (HPDE) and get signed up! I promise you that there is NOTHING on the internet that can replace personal instruction!

Scott

So true. I was lucky to work with a top SCCA auto-x guy who taught me a lot of valuable lessons at the auto-x course and on the track.

Don't be the idiot that reads something and then gets in an accident trying it on a public road.

[wbradley]

I thought heel toe was intended to allow you to match revs while braking and then release the clutch in the proper gear just past the apex. I am pretty sure the theory is righjt, but maybe my description is wrong. The point (I thought) is to reach optimal RPMs for accelerating without downshift braking at the apex. Then hopefully explode out of the turn.

I guess my error was not specifying that you do this ENTERING the corner, then release the clutch to accelerate out of the apex.

BTW I have never attended a track event, just tried this on the street

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by wbradley

BTW I have never attended a track event, just tried this on the street

This is the problem. You need to attend an HPDE event so you can learn about what you are attempting to teach.

You never "drop the clutch" anywhere near or after the apex. All your braking, clutching, blipping is done before the apex. The goal is to slow down, be in the right gear and be applying throttle through and after the apex.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

agreed, and a complete waste of time on the track also, again assuming you have syncos in the gearbox. Now on older crash box transmissions, this was a very useful skill to hone, as, like you point out, not doing so would upset the chassis from the resulting hop

Your post makes it seem like we can go out there in our manual 86's and forget about using the clutch. Can you clarify what you are saying as no HPDE instructor has promoted this "clutchless" style of shifting.

[donutfilling]

Goku can teach you to heel-toe.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuoZeuSgEj4"]Heel Toe Driving Technique - YouTube[/ame]

[naikaidriver]

Originally Posted by donutfilling

Goku can teach you to heel-toe.

Only if Goku is sitting next to you in the car!

YouTube is no substitute for personalized instruction in a safe environment. period.

Would you want sex advice from someone who just sits around watching porn?

Scott

[donutfilling]

Originally Posted by naikaidriver

Only if Goku is sitting next to you in the car!

YouTube is no substitute for personalized instruction in a safe environment. period.

Would you want sex advice from someone who just sits around watching porn?

Scott

Goku is too busy saving the world and protecting our cars from intergalactic door-dings.

(but yes theres no substitute for instruction, doesn't hurt to get a video to visualize how it works though! I've had people tell me they were trying to hell-toe with heel on the brake and toe on the gas lol.)

[Dynotronics1]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Your post makes it seem like we can go out there in our manual 86's and forget about using the clutch. Can you clarify what you are saying as no HPDE instructor has promoted this "clutchless" style of shifting.

lift,into neutral,blip,into next lower gear, on throttle. It sounds hard, but its all about practice. Once you have the tecnique down, and you get the feel for the speed at which the engine accelerates(free rev), or decelerates, it becomes second nature.

The race car I currently drive has a sequental Xtrac, so this"feel" is sort of the lifeline of the gearbox. Downshift this gearbox wrong and your going to spend 8-10K$ replacing dogs and drive rings

As to why no HPDE instructor promotes this, I assume its because they don't know how to do it. After all, they are HPDE instructors, and most that I have seen can't drive that well, let alone teach driving

[Noob4Life]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I thought heel toe was intended to allow you to match revs while braking and then release the clutch in the proper gear just past the apex. I am pretty sure the theory is righjt, but maybe my description is wrong. The point (I thought) is to reach optimal RPMs for accelerating without downshift braking at the apex. Then hopefully explode out of the turn.

I guess my error was not specifying that you do this ENTERING the corner, then release the clutch to accelerate out of the apex.

BTW I have never attended a track event, just tried this on the street

Never raced before but from what I know that would mean that you are braking while turning which your not suppose to do. You brake before the turn that way you can use all the tire grip for the turning not braking and turning.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

lift,into neutral,blip,into next lower gear, on throttle. ...g

What i don't understand about this technique is how exactly you unload the gears if your trying to slide out of gear as your braking hard?

Or is the idea that you slide out of gear as you are transitioning from acceleration to braking and then slide into the lower gear.

[naikaidriver]

Originally Posted by Dynotronics1

lift,into neutral,blip,into next lower gear, on throttle. It sounds hard, but its all about practice. Once you have the tecnique down, and you get the feel for the speed at which the engine accelerates(free rev), or decelerates, it becomes second nature.

The race car I currently drive has a sequental Xtrac, so this"feel" is sort of the lifeline of the gearbox. Downshift this gearbox wrong and your going to spend 8-10K$ replacing dogs and drive rings

As to why no HPDE instructor promotes this, I assume its because they don't know how to do it. After all, they are HPDE instructors, and most that I have seen can't drive that well, let alone teach driving

The reason that HPDE instructors don't teach this is so they aren't sued when newbies grenade their stock transmissions attempting to shift like this. The FR-S is NOT a race car and the transmission is NOT a race transmission. I've done this in racing and I see no reason to do it autocrossing or on the street and there is nothing to gain from this with a road car's transmission.

And I would strongly recommend against badmouthing HPDE instructors unless you have something specific to say and can back it up. In an environment where we are trying to foster proper education for new drivers, it is grossly irresponsible to badmouth the very people that are not only spending their OWN time to further the sport, but make the streets generally safer by educating the wannabe Ken Blocks out there.

Scott