running E85 in Oregon

[BRZPDX]

Anyone here running E85 on your 86 yet? I'm considering this when I get my tune, and just wanted to get some ideas to what I should watch for, etc. I did my own research here, but sounds like you need to run unleaded O92 every once in a while to "flush" out the injectors?

At what point is it dangerous to mix the fuel when changing from O92 to E85? Some people say just drive until the gas light comes on, and change fuel, some say you will need to pump out every single drop before changing fuel.

Are cold starts really tough in this region for E85?

[stockysnail]

tech4pdx "Evan" is the expert on E85 with our cars as he's been using it and been through a lot of crap with it. He posted on here about it so search for his posts and you'll find it. I ran it on my VW R32 and it was great but it's not so great with our cars as there's crap to deal with unlike the VW.

[tech4pdx]

The biggest challenge is knowing the E content of the fuel at the stations. They will all claim that it is E85. Even in the winter, they will tell you that it is E85. The reality is that they can only "guarantee" a minimum 70% E content (105 octane) and this can vary all the way up to almost E90 (from trusted sources). The tune that you run (to keep AFRs in check.. you want to run a little richer with E85) should be reflective of the E content in your tank. I ran an E70 tune with E85 in the tank and I ran TOO lean (~13.5 AFR at WOT). I ran E70 because the publicly published Ethanol schedules across the country specified a different class of fuel (class 3 (E70) or 2 (E74)) for this time of year in Oregon. Well, the schedule was wrong. Ultimately, you need to test your Ethanol fuel before you pump it. You can buy a E85 test tube or you can get an ECA (Ethanol Content Analyzer).

I would always let your tank run almost dry when changing fuels. When the dial is on Empty, you have almost 2 gallons left. I've verified this on more than a few occasions. 13.2 gallon tank and I always seem to pump about 11 gallons when I'm on Empty. The car seems to get a little finicky with initial start/idle and what not when changing fuels (i.e. from E85 to pump). It seems to clear up on its own.

I've since dumped EcuTek and all of my flex fuel dreams. I'm moving to another tuning solution and plan to run separate maps. I keep a Win8 tablet on me to do this. It's a PITA, yes, but far more deterministic. Also, I'm getting an ECA wired in for piece of mind.

I ran "E85" in 30-35F weather and it was fine. First start or two might be tough, but it will eventually turn over. Also, running pump gas through the system every once in awhile might be a good idea since it has lubricating properties. Alcohol can be tough on the fuel system. I have no data to support this thinking on this car.

I have more to say, but I'm lazy. Maybe I ran run my mouth off at a local meet/event with more info..

Just my opinions! Take them as you wish.

Evan

[DarrenDriven]

Wow, Evan, I had no idea you were so versed on this!

[stockysnail]

He's been through a lot. It's basically way too much work compared to the ease of the VW flexfuel kit I had on my R32. I'm avoiding that nightmare like the plague unless a good flexfuel option comes up which may be never as it's a lot of work and needs a fuel line monitor to monitor e85 content to automatically adjust ecu map settings.

[NickFRS]

After much talk with some tuners i'm actually going away from my E85 idea. It also will bring more wear to your pistons. Like Josh said gas has more lubricating properties then alcohol and this can lead to faster ring wear and what not if you run E85. Looks like i'll just wait for the Super charger.

[CBR600RR]

@tech4pdx

13.5 AFR isn't really all that lean. it is on the upper end approaching lean. but really anything over 14.0 is lean

[tech4pdx]

@CBR600RR

I agree that for N/A it may not be that critical, but I think for an F/I car it would be playing with fire. I like to target somewhere around ~12.5 AFR (give or take depending on the motor). Either way, I wouldn't want to inadvertently be running lean on the street with the way I drive sometimes.

Ultimately, all I'm trying to communicate is that you can never have enough dials, gauges and logs when playing with alcohol or F/I. For people with thousands in their cars, it would be prudent to keep tabs on what's going on. I'm afraid that blindly pumping a fuel (as I was doing) without knowing what exactly you're pumping is like consuming food product with no regard to its content.

[tech4pdx]

Originally Posted by NickFRS

After much talk with some tuners i'm actually going away from my E85 idea. It also will bring more wear to your pistons. Like Josh said gas has more lubricating properties then alcohol and this can lead to faster ring wear and what not if you run E85. Looks like i'll just wait for the Super charger.

PD supercharger would be sweet.

[CBR600RR]

Originally Posted by tech4pdx

@CBR600RR

I agree that for N/A it may not be that critical, but I think for an F/I car it would be playing with fire. I like to target somewhere around ~12.5 AFR (give or take depending on the motor). Either way, I wouldn't want to inadvertently be running lean on the street with the way I drive sometimes.

Ultimately, all I'm trying to communicate is that you can never have enough dials, gauges and logs when playing with alcohol or F/I. For people with thousands in their cars, it would be prudent to keep tabs on what's going on. I'm afraid that blindly pumping a fuel (as I was doing) without knowing what exactly you're pumping is like consuming food product with no regard to its content.

:happy0180:

I have my bike tuned to 12.9 - just for the safety of being a little rich. 13.5 will make a tiny bit more power, but is closer to the 'too lean' border