*PHASTEK* Perrin Tuned Vortech Supercharger Install Thread (3 Vehicles, 3 Kits)

[PhastekSport]

This just in. New data shows that drivers with forced induction tend to drive their vehicles harder.

Kit encourages use of the skinny pedal.

Not disagreeing that having a supercharger usually yields less fuel economy than a turbo kit.

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[Coheed]

Originally Posted by jamesm

My god that's horrific. 21mpg? Dealbreaker, when a turbo can do more with better economy.

A turbo will not do better. Remember that more power means more fuel. And when going faster, you will be using the extra power from the turbo. I've had several turbo cars. None of them tuned for performance have had stellar fuel economy.

The drop in economy is 100% the fault of the driver, and enjoying the newfound power.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Coheed

A turbo will not do better. Remember that more power means more fuel. And when going faster, you will be using the extra power from the turbo. I've had several turbo cars. None of them tuned for performance have had stellar fuel economy.

The drop in economy is 100% the fault of the driver, and enjoying the newfound power.

I'm sure it has more to do with 'spirited driving' than anything else, but that's still a huge drop on average. The statement about turbo cars is incorrect in my experience. I've always been able to achieve near-stock (sometimes even better) fuel economy in my old boosted miata, and hpf gets 25+ mpg from 600whp turbo m3's. turbos don't eat gas when you drive like a sissy. When you get into of course, all bets are off lol.

[Coheed]

Driving like a sissy with a turbo = FAIL.

[2forme]

I've gotten 30+ mpg out of a 400hp turbo car with over 200k on the odo. It's possible lol.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Coheed

Driving like a sissy with a turbo = FAIL.

You can have a fast car and not drive like an idiot to drop the kids off at school. It's possible.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by jamesm

You can have a fast car and not drive like an idiot to drop the kids off at school. It's possible.

This statement is false, kids with legs do not fit in a 86 :P jk

I think by driving like a sissy he means NEVER going into boost. If you are just installing a turbo to stay in vacuum all the time...... well it doesnt make much sense. You are going to have fun with it and if you accelerate a little faster here and there than if you were NA there is going to be a fuel hit for that.

[EAGLE5]

Blah. Superchargers create additional load on the engine, lowering efficiency. More air = more load. Turbos don't take any power to run, and can even help efficiency. Superchargers can have other great benefits, like linear boost, great predictability, fewer parts, and no lag.

Is this a clutched system?

[circuithero]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Blah. Superchargers create additional load on the engine, lowering efficiency. More air = more load. Turbos don't take any power to run, and can even help efficiency. Superchargers can have other great benefits, like linear boost, great predictability, fewer parts, and no lag.

Is this a clutched system?

...turbos do not help efficiency, ever.

[F1point4]

THis is not a clutched supercharger.

All of three of us are now running the upgraded V-3 Blowers. 3.48 pulley and higher flow impeller are the upgrades here.

For reference the original pulley size was 3.6. The 10 PSI pulley Perrin was doing R&D with was size 3.125.

We'll be posting more data soon. @Chris@Phastek's car definitely feels faster. Put me in the seat so well I couldn't effectively watch the datalogs as he was driving.

[Mars2]

On one of my other car ( VW T5 V6) I have a vortech.

On the same 200 km trip that I do weakly on cruize control at 160Km/h (4000 rpm light throttle, No boost 0 psi)
I have the following.

With vortech 13.4 Mpg
With out Vortech same tune 15.6 Mpg

The test done without the vortech charger but keeping same tune was when I removed the charger to rebuild it I kept the tune in as I thought if it can drive with charger without boost it can drive without charger. same condition same road same speed with cruize control on.
Then when I start to press the tiny pedal and build some boost the Mpg shrink like hell.

So look like the drag of the charger make me loose 2 Mpg
I have build some turbo before and did not get that bad when cruizing of boost.

[Coheed]

Making power uses fuel. Enough said. A turbo isn't free power. In a street based turbo setup, volumetric efficiency typically drops. The added air intake more than makes up the difference, but it takes a rather large turbo to reach a crossover region where VE exceeds 100%.

As far as efficiency goes, there are many different types of efficiency. You can't just label one setup as more "efficient" than the other. There are too many contexts to consider.

I've yet to own a car that got better mileage after I turbocharged it. And it has mostly to due with driving habits. However, if you are looking to improve economy, you should look elsewhere.

I'm not sure how CARB approval works, but I'm sure if cruising MPG increased to any large extent the kit wouldn't get approved. Just saying.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by circuithero

...turbos do not help efficiency, ever.

Do too! In the real world, if you can get 200HP at 4000rpm (or wherever) instead of 7000rpm, you can upshift earlier and have less friction.

Follow this link for much more info: http://bit.ly/Xh9Eho

[2forme]

A turbo (or supercharger) isn't solely responsible for the VE of an engine... Have you considered the breathing aspects of the engine itself? An NA engine requires different airflow characteristics (Overlap, lift height, etc) to be efficient than an FI motor. Ever wonder why the Neon SRT4 sounds nothing like a regular Neon? Or why aftermarket cam companies release a series of FI based camshafts for cars originally designed as NA?

And about the efficiency of the system itself. Ever wonder why a Vortech SC needs 9-10 psi to make identical power of a 6-7 psi AVO setup? There are plenty of benefits to owning a SC, but efficiency isn't it's strongest advantage. Alas, there isn't a single, perfect, setup.