Video: FR-S Chases a 997 GT3 RS at Circuit of the Americas

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Chasing is correct, why? because more than half the video highlights the FR-S following the 911 around the track. If it had been a Viper, a Veyron or a Zonda, or even a civic up front the title would still be the same. I believe you add the connotation of a "competitive chase" to the term. I don't see anyone else make the same distinction that you do.



You make it sound like the staff have the authority on the community when you say "ft86club credibility". We are just average people and we only provide a service for the community to gather. The quote you provides did not at all suggest a modified FRS can keep up with a GT3, i believe you are adding more context to the subject that just simply does not exist. I know you're looking out for correct information to protect people learning or the ignorant, but your bringing the disagreement to a higher level than nessesary.



Iv tracked, and have plenty of seat time in various cars, i know generally the performance of both cars. I also follow series racing and know that fully tracked cars in the same class blur the lines on the requirements to take a win or a top finish.

But that wasn't what i was asking, all i wanted was to see fully tracked FRS and GT3, just to see it. not to make bets, not to see the gt3 "massacre" it or the FRS the pass it. I just wanted to see it. I care not of the results, I only care to see the potential of a middle brow car with only less than 1 year on this earth vs a car with years of engineering and top notch performance.


again, I get what your saying, but your thoughts are completely unfounded especially when you tried to interpret my post.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Chasing is correct, why? because more than half the video highlights the FR-S following the 911 around the track. If it had been a Viper, a Veyron or a Zonda, or even a civic up front the title would still be the same. I believe you add the connotation of a "competitive chase" to the term. I don't see anyone else make the same distinction that you do.

Perhaps my interpretation of 'hunt/chase' is different than you. However, this:

"Just how well does a track prepped FR-S compare against the high performance 997 GT3 at the Circuit of the Americas track? See for yourself"

Is asking the reader to compare the two cars, and is insinuating that the FRS does well, when there is nothing to compare here other than driver skill. The two cars cannot be compared.

You make it sound like the staff have the authority on the community when you say "ft86club credibility".

Sure you do. This is the defacto website for the FRS/BRZ. I think it's a great site, but don't want to it lose some of it's credibility because of poorly chosen words.

I just wanted to see it. I care not of the results, I only care to see the potential of a middle brow car with only less than 1 year on this earth vs a car with years of engineering and top notch performance.

fair enough. :happy0180:

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

The title is not fine. You still don't get it. An FR-S can't even chase a car like that. It's not remotely in the same league, and to say it is 'hunting' an RS4.0 make you guys look absolutely silly.



Leave it as is if you want to diminish ft86 club's credibility. You're still suggesting that a modified FRS can keep up with a GT3. That is not true.



Why? It would be a massacre. You know that, right? I'm getting the impression you don't know what kind of lap times a FRS pulls and a GT3 pulls, and you've never tracked a car before to know that the skill level of the driver is a huge factor here.

Sounds like you taking it a little personal, lol. Don't think it's that crucial.

[wholeeoh]

i guess it just makes us look a little ricey? lol

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Sounds like you taking it a little personal, lol. Don't think it's that crucial.

I freely admit that this whole 'thing' is a personal pet peeve of mine.

Originally Posted by wholeeoh

i guess it just makes us look a little ricey? lol

It does......

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Perhaps my interpretation of 'hunt/chase' is different than you. However, this:

"Just how well does a track prepped FR-S compare against the high performance 997 GT3 at the Circuit of the Americas track? See for yourself"

Is asking the reader to compare the two cars, and is insinuating that the FRS does well, when there is nothing to compare here other than driver skill. The two cars cannot be compared.

You see where we loose ourselves in the translation? It really is for the lack of a better word when it comes down to it. Even if we manage to reword it, the video will allow the viewer to make the comparison anyhow even if there is realistically none. FR-S will always be compared to the 911 in that video even if we say nothing. We just make the headline a bit more exciting to read and give favor to the FRS for viewer sake.

Had we said, "how bad does a track prepped FRS compare to a 911GT3RS?" answer would be not bad. considering 8-10 mins of the video the 911 is still very visible even against a poor driver.

Sure you do. This is the defacto website for the FRS/BRZ. I think it's a great site, but don't want to it lose some of it's credibility because of poorly chosen words.

Much of our "credibility" came from our members, not our staff. Sure we were here longer than anyone else on the web, but our authority on subjects aren't as amazing as you think they are. We just try out best to relay information and trust our members to catch and correct the information accuracy and sources.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Had we said, "how bad does a track prepped FRS compare to a 911GT3RS?" answer would be not bad. considering 8-10 mins of the video the 911 is still very visible even against a poor driver.

Based on what you have written above, I stand by my comments.
This is where we have the ultimate disconnect. I completely disagree that the answer is 'not bad'. In a semi-competent person's hands, the real answer is BAD. REALLY BAD. Pcasso is about 15 seconds off pace of a decently driven GT3 (regular GT3, not RS4.0 like in the video) at COTA. 15 seconds. That is an eternity at the track. This is exactly why I made a fuss to begin with. I've explained why this answer ('not bad') is foolish already. If you still can't see why, there's nothing I can do.

We're going to have to just disagree on this.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Based on what you have written above, I stand by my comments.
This is where we have the ultimate disconnect. I completely disagree that the answer is 'not bad'. In a semi-competent person's hands, the real answer is BAD. REALLY BAD. Pcasso is about 15 seconds off pace of a decently driven GT3 (regular GT3, not RS4.0 like in the video) at COTA. 15 seconds. That is an eternity at the track. This is exactly why I made a fuss to begin with. I've explained why this answer ('not bad') is foolish already. If you still can't see why, there's nothing I can do.

We're going to have to just disagree on this.

not bad would also entail that; the FR-S was not competing with the GT3, Power performance was 45% disadvantage, the fact that pcasso's car with mods is still much much cheaper than the 911. The off pace means nothing since its not a real comparison anyhow. so 15-20-30 seconds behind means nothing.

Bad would be if the FR-S was actually pushing, unlikely with those lines. Bad would be if he was 15 seconds off pace a smaller performance difference, and price tag and directly gunning for that 911. But its not, so no its not bad, it would be bad if you actually took the video seriously.

looked up i see the best lap for the Porsche 997 GT3 is 2:17.8 and the Miata is 02:41.7, s2k is 2:34.1 ...if PPcasso's car managed to get anywhere between 2:25-2:35 with his setup, its very good considering those power levels under 9000 vs the 911 at that particular course which favors power with 8 high speed sctions.

[orthojoe]

We're just not going to see eye to eye here.

[wholeeoh]

just agree to disagree

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

We're just not going to see eye to eye here.

Whichever the case, you called us mods out, I'm just trying to see your point and how you can justify calling us "foolish" and "embarrassing".

Ft86club should be embarrassed for trying to pawn that video off as a testament to the capabilities of the FRS. Nobody here thinks for one second that a track prepped FRS can hold a candle to a stock Gt3.

This is where I have a problem, and tried to explain. So ill try to dull it down a bit.

A member likes the video, the member shares the video, the video is about a tracked FR-S following a 911GT3 on a track day which we would call it chasing. Admin says cool! ill post up on main page with a catchy Title!

We did not post up the video and said this is a testament to the amazing abilities of a FR-S against a true sports car..no we said;

We all know that the FR-S is a very capable track car, especially with a few track-spec upgrades.

AKA - Referring back a few months, the FR-S is a capable track car, just as the Miata and s2000 are capable track cars. Which was questionable before the car was released, and after the first set of reviews saying the car is under-powered to be "capable".

Just how well does a track prepped FR-S compare against the high performance 997 GT3 at the Circuit of the Americas track? See for yourself

AKA - Looking for a good video of a prepped FR-S and how it manages to still CHASE a GT3 or keep eyes on around a power hungry track.

Is the FR-S going to catch it? NO, is the FR-S going to keep up with it? NO and nobody is expecting it too. Yet you read something into it that we didn't and claimed we are saying the FR-S in that video is doing something that is amazing against the GT3. Its not, but its still a good video to showcase one of our own members adventures and as a first year pioneer in setting the FR-S for tracking.


So wheres your beef? is it with us? If it is i'm trying to figure that out.
is it with the way its worded? Maybe we should omit and never mention the GT3 anyhow, but the video clearly highlights it anyway so its kind of pointless. I don't want to have to mention is it your own "personal" problem, because if it is, it wont adversely effect the "credibility" of the community and we can take this discussion else where.

[mkxr]

Ok, gonna drop in my 2 cents.
I wouldn't necessarily assume to call the porsche driver a poor one. This is a track day, everyone races against their own time really, and it's not a head-to-head competition. It's possible that it was his first time at that track, and he was trying to learn it before going 'flat out,' it's also possible that he's new to driving that car, or just new to being on the track altogether. I'm sure many, if not most, of us would drive a car like that gently the first few times on the track. I say props to him for taking it out to the track, as too many people these days buy expensive sports cars just for show. And at least he was courteous to let the FRS pass by.

And by the way, very nice FRS driving

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Whichever the case, you called us mods out, I'm just trying to see your point and how you can justify calling us "foolish" and "embarrassing".



This is where I have a problem, and tried to explain. So ill try to dull it down a bit.

No need to 'dull' it down for me. You can insult me all day long if you like. It doesn't bother me. Your thought process still doesn't make sense in the 'dulled' version, so it's not 'dulled' down enough for me.

A GT3 (mind you not a GT3RS4.0 like in video which is much faster) can roughly run 2:20 at COTA while a FRS will roughly run 2:40 (pcasso ran 2:43). A 20 second difference is all that needs to be known in terms of the capabilities of the car. If you don't understand how 20+ seconds is an absolute crushing difference that can't be made up no matter how much you throw into the car, I can't help you.

You're basically putting Usain Bolt in a body cast, and then showing video of some generic high school runner 'chasing' after him. Look! He's holding his own! props to him! That's a testament to the high school runner's abilities! No. Not really. Not worth comparing. Why even bother when the other guy is in a body cast? The high school runner ran a good run, but are you really going to try to compare him to Usain Bolt... in a body cast? (ok maybe one leg out so he can hop forward)

I don't have a problem with posting/highlighting the video. Yes, it's the way you guys have it worded. I thought I've made that very clear already.

We're just running around in circles here. Keep the wording the same if you want. I'm just trying to save the website some face. I know I'm not the only here that thinks the description is silly.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by mkxr

I wouldn't necessarily assume to call the porsche driver a poor one. This is a track day, everyone races against their own time really, and it's not a head-to-head competition. It's possible that it was his first time at that track, and he was trying to learn it before going 'flat out,' it's also possible that he's new to driving that car, or just new to being on the track altogether.

No, he was a crappy driver who 'padded his resume' in order to get into the event. Apparent this event organized by MVP was for 'advanced' drivers only. That was not 'advanced' driving. There were lots of people who talked themselves up in order to get into the event, apparently.