Got my car back from Vortech!-3rd party tests & test drivers thread

[skatery1989]

And if I was to guess I would say Gem is easily over 250. If its true that he is running the upgrade kit. But why sit here and give him the attention that he's looking for. He acts like he's hiding top secret information.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by skatery1989

Hmm well I am at 252 HP and that is at high altitude. I am pretty sure 300 can be reached.

You put up 252 on E85 after your 15% I'm assuming.

I got lambasted for comparing this to my N/A E85 results, so I'm only really counting 91-93 octane. Besides, Perrin supposedly hit 247 on 93. So let's keep it on an equal playing field.

[skatery1989]

Originally Posted by 2forme

You put up 252 on E85 after your 15% I'm assuming.

I got lambasted for comparing this to my N/A E85 results, so I'm only really counting 91-93 octane. Besides, Perrin supposedly hit 247 on 93. So let's keep it on an equal playing field.

We can do that. I would watch the Perrin thread maybe they will put some new number up before Gem. I also made 220 on 91. That is corrected.

[2forme]

For all effects and purposes, the difference between 91 and 93 is negligible. I've personally seen 91 and 93 octane maps make the same power even after tuning.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

But I still come off as an arrogant prick? No, I dont get what you mean. Sorry.

You speak (or type) with a tone of superiority. You present opinions as fact. And you jump to the defensive too quickly which pushes others to the defensive.

Whenever anyone asks a question about the parts on your car you take it as a personal affront and return fire. Not with overt insults, but insinuated & implied phrasing about how you're better & you're decisions are better.

I understand you want to justify your decision and your investment but that can be done without talking down to people. Especially when those people are here because they are genuinely interested in making the same decision.

You come off as someone who's very insecure and trying desperately to gain peoples approval, but you don't realize that you're over compensating and pushing people away. But that's probably too abstract.

If you could just calm down, treat people like equals, not question everyone's worth based on the money they spend on their cars, and actually accept that people will have different opinions & that doesn't invalidate yours, you would have a much better time here.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by Calum

You speak (or type) with a tone of superiority. You present opinions as fact. And you jump to the defensive too quickly which pushes others to the defensive.

Whenever anyone asks a question about the parts on your car you take it as a personal affront and return fire. Not with overt insults, but insinuated & implied phrasing about how you're better & you're decisions are better.

I understand you want to justify your decision and your investment but that can be done without talking down to people. Especially when those people are here because they are genuinely interested in making the same decision.

You come off as someone who's very insecure and trying desperately to gain peoples approval, but you don't realize that you're over compensating and pushing people away. But that's probably too abstract.

If you could just calm down, treat people like equals, not question everyone's worth based on the money they spend on their cars, and actually accept that people will have different opinions & that doesn't invalidate yours, you would have a much better time here.

I believe this is deserving!



bravo, Calum!

[Jesse@JDLAutodesign]

Originally Posted by 2forme

For all effects and purposes, the difference between 91 and 93 is negligible. I've personally seen 91 and 93 octane maps make the same power even after tuning.

When i moved from NY to AZ my turbo civic lost about 40whp switching from 93 to 91...tuned to MBT both times.

[Sonolin]

I'd imagine there's a bigger difference for FI cars, when switching from 91 to 93 right? I'd imaging its more noticeable than N/A.

Power gains on this kit aren't the greatest, especially at the price point, but I honestly don't think SC's in general are going to make beastly amounts of power with this car. I'd be perfectly happy with 250whp myself, which seems possible with 93 + full exhaust + tune + pulley I'd imagine. It is a little dissapointing to see most posting dynos at the 200-220 whp range, though...

[2forme]

Originally Posted by Sonolin

I'd imagine there's a bigger difference for FI cars, when switching from 91 to 93 right? I'd imaging its more noticeable than N/A.

Power gains on this kit aren't the greatest, especially at the price point, but I honestly don't think SC's in general are going to make beastly amounts of power with this car. I'd be perfectly happy with 250whp myself, which seems possible with 93 + full exhaust + tune + pulley I'd imagine. It is a little dissapointing to see most posting dynos at the 200-220 whp range, though...

Originally Posted by Jesse@JDLAutodesign

When i moved from NY to AZ my turbo civic lost about 40whp switching from 93 to 91...tuned to MBT both times.

I've personally seen the switch bear no difference on the dyno even with tuning (FI). I think you might have had a bad batch or extremely good batch of gas.

[ichitaka05]

*Mods are watching*

[Supermassive]

You know, this is a forum where people have opinions. Gem made this thread to point out his opinion and automatically gets attacked the second he says something that the usual e-thugs on this board don't like. Gem comes off as superior, yeah sure i get it. But does that give any of you guys any more reason to discredit and attack him. Gem is smart when it comes to cars, he's not infallible but he's damn smart. What do you expect from someone when responses to his posts in question are automatically hostile or perceived to be so. There's a point where I feel the mods are protecting the actual instigators, instead of looking at the people who constantly flame Gem on these forums...it's the same people from before.

The same people with no tact and the comfort of remaining anonymous over the internet. The crappy thing about forums is there's people who actually derive pleasure in starting confrontations, this thread is a perfect example. Gem started it nice enough and the second he posted something that could be disputed the vultures jumped in and escalated this to the point that the mods are likely to intervene and instead of actually addressing the problem they'll ban Gem for defending his position instead of the people attacking him.

Trolling threads is tasteless, but I think the people that call his posts trolling are mixing up his intent. The people that respond to what they perceive as trolling are just as bad as someone who intentionally wants that outcome. Sure Gem may be Perrin's personal cheerleader, but is his opinion any less valuable than your own? I for one like having Gem on these forums because he does know quite a bit about cars and has provided useful information and discussion in the past.

Also not to call anyone out, but SportsGuy83 this could have been handled in PM's instead of openly on the forums, the second you showed that mods might get into this thread look at what happened. I'm sorry, I have nothing against you but as a mod you are the example and you made it ok for the vultures to continue prodding.

I don't condone misinformation, and I am 100% against trolling for the sake of trolling. I will retract statements if they are wrong and eat the crow associated with it and have done so on this forum. As someone who is on the outside looking in, what I see is a bunch of people who are predisposed to disagree with Gem and actively seek out anything they can throw in his face. Sure he doesn't help his own case when he responds to these attacks but the question to ask is whether the attackers could have worded their responded in a less combative tone.

So can we get back to discussing the possibility of a comparison between the two FI systems...and for those who are all about not turning this into a TC vs. SC thread...that's the whole point of the thread...you know to get a head to head comparison of the two...

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Supermassive

You know, this is a forum where people have opinions. Gem made this thread to point out his opinion and automatically gets attacked the second he says something that the usual e-thugs on this board don't like. Gem comes off as superior, yeah sure i get it. But does that give any of you guys any more reason to discredit and attack him. Gem is smart when it comes to cars, he's not infallible but he's damn smart. What do you expect from someone when responses to his posts in question are automatically hostile or perceived to be so. There's a point where I feel the mods are protecting the actual instigators, instead of looking at the people who constantly flame Gem on these forums...it's the same people from before.

You are missing the point here. Go and read back the thread. My first post was actually defending him. The problem is not his opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I have no problem with that. The problem with Gem among others are: he was already banned for doing exactly what he is doing again and that is pushing to the floor all other FI options and on top of that, doing it based on lies. Furthermore, he is lucky right now to not have been banned again. When you are banned on a forum its not to go ahead and make a new ID and stay in the same place doing the same thing. Mods (and please don't include me as a moderator, because I only Mod the Southeast region, I cannot control anything else outside of that sub-forum) have been gently enough to allow him even though he IS banned.

The same people with no tact and the comfort of remaining anonymous over the internet. The crappy thing about forums is there's people who actually derive pleasure in starting confrontations, this thread is a perfect example. Gem started it nice enough and the second he posted something that could be disputed the vultures jumped in and escalated this to the point that the mods are likely to intervene and instead of actually addressing the problem they'll ban Gem for defending his position instead of the people attacking him.

Trolling threads is tasteless, but I think the people that call his posts trolling are mixing up his intent. The people that respond to what they perceive as trolling are just as bad as someone who intentionally wants that outcome. Sure Gem may be Perrin's personal cheerleader, but is his opinion any less valuable than your own? I for one like having Gem on these forums because he does know quite a bit about cars and has provided useful information and discussion in the past.


I have not trolled the thread. I have only called him out on lies that don't even make sense. I don't see why that should be allowed here. I'm all for correct and accurate information, even if its not of my liking. That is the way a good community stays together, being respectful to one another, not trying to take others as "ignorants" for lack of better word.

Also not to call anyone out, but SportsGuy83 this could have been handled in PM's instead of openly on the forums, the second you showed that mods might get into this thread look at what happened. I'm sorry, I have nothing against you but as a mod you are the example and you made it ok for the vultures to continue prodding.


This has been handled via PM and we have had nice and peaceful PM's and PM's in which I explain exactly what is wrong about this whole ordeal. Again, I am not a moderator of any other area of the site besides Southeast region, so I cannot delete posts, ban him or anything related to him. Outside of the Southeast region I am exactly any other enthusiast/ member.

I don't condone misinformation, and I am 100% against trolling for the sake of trolling. I will retract statements if they are wrong and eat the crow associated with it and have done so on this forum. As someone who is on the outside looking in, what I see is a bunch of people who are predisposed to disagree with Gem and actively seek out anything they can throw in his face. Sure he doesn't help his own case when he responds to these attacks but the question to ask is whether the attackers could have worded their responded in a less combative tone.


I have written this many times and I'll write it again. When he was initially banned, he was doing the exact same thing going on right now. It is OK he is Perrin's/Vortech fan, it is ok he is excited about it, it is ok he believes that FI option is the best one period. I have NO problem with that.

The problem is the lies. Why do you need to say things like "I won't buy a kit that relies on silicone hoses to handle psi" when he knows its total BS that is an issue, when those silicone pipes are rated to 50 psi..... Why say TC kits are not able to hold 10 psi, when its total BS? (Those are two posts, one from before he was banned, the second one after). People who are very active in the forum have lived through it and are tired and wary about it. I have told him countless times.... Talk all you want, but please don't lie, post accurate information, but it just doesn't change. One last thing, he made me look like a liar, like I was lying about the fact that he wrote the BS that TC kits are not holding psi by editing his original post. So it went like this. Posted the lie, I read it and call it out, he edits his post and then starts attacking me like I'm a big liar and he never said it only to be uncovered because his original post was quoted. You think that is fair or proper behavior towards anyone here? That is not ethical and will not be tolerated in this forum.

This are just simple examples of many many other similar situations.


I'm a fan of several other kits, yet you don't see me anywhere posting lies about any of the the kits I don't like much.



And you know what is the worst part? He was banned already for this exact behavior, and yet he comes back and its doing it again.


I agree with you, he is a very educated car guy, he definitely is a huge car enthusiast, but the disrespect to other kits, the going into the other threads to try and discredit them in little subtle ways, that is unacceptable.

So can we get back to discussing the possibility of a comparison between the two FI systems...and for those who are all about not turning this into a TC vs. SC thread...that's the whole point of the thread...you know to get a head to head comparison of the two...

I would LOVE to read third party unbiased reviews. You know better than that. There is already a member with not the best review about the kit, but it is nowhere to be found in this thread (remember, the intention of the thread is to post any and all third party reviews about Vortech's kit...)


I agree with you, let's move on and talk about the OP topic. BUT know, that lies will be called out. There are more than enough educated forum members.

See replies embedded in your post. No disrespect of offense taken. I appreciate and respect your tone and feedback.

[2forme]

Well looks like I'm an e-thug now. Awesome. I guess challenging lies and misinformation is frowned upon in this establishment.

[akuhei]

Originally Posted by 2forme

Well looks like I'm an e-thug now. Awesome. I guess challenging lies and misinformation is frowned upon in this establishment.

E-thug is a bit extreme, just seems like the same people are hanging on his every word waiting for him to screw up. Don't get me wrong, I haven't been much of a fan of Gem since day one (some might remember that he and I started with an arguement). But it just feels like people are ganging up on him. I dunno, just how I felt after reading the recent posts on the thread.