Spotted, a new viewpoint

[russv]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Just so we are clear, you have a right to your opinion, I just don't understand it. Being an enthusiast has nothing to do with a preference in transmission any more than it does a preference in color, or tires or turbo vs supercharger.

Take the two points you make above.

Limiting any car to an AT does not mean only "enthusiasts" will drive it, or make all drivers like-minded. There is no such thing with any car. There are Ferrari drivers that aren't enthusiasts, they can just afford it for whatever purpose, and they think it's cool. Or, like was mentioned on a recent Top Gear USA episode, the husband bought it for the wife to make up for sleeping with the nanny.

On your second point, I can teach nearly anyone in about 30 minutes to drive a MT. Heck, I drove one when I was 8 years old. Pretty much anyone that drove a car before the 80's learned how to do it. Its not exactly rocket science, and doesn't really prove anything or differentiate you in any way.

That's just my prospective on it. This is a chicken and egg thing. MT drivers call AT drivers "names" or question their abilities, and somehow we are supposed to just take it as fact without trying to explain we see it differently.

I'm not attacking you any more than you claim to be attacking AT drivers. We just have a different opinion about whether having to press a clutch pedal differentiates your ability to drive the car.

I say it doesn't, you say it does. OK, its all good.

:happy0180:

Well said. Time to close this thread and move on to more important things. The MT vs Auto argument has become tiresome in the extreme.

[ThugNasty]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Just so we are clear, you have a right to your opinion, I just don't understand it. Being an enthusiast has nothing to do with a preference in transmission any more than it does a preference in color, or tires or turbo vs supercharger.

Take the two points you make above.

Limiting any car to an AT does not mean only "enthusiasts" will drive it, or make all drivers like-minded. There is no such thing with any car. There are Ferrari drivers that aren't enthusiasts, they can just afford it for whatever purpose, and they think it's cool. Or, like was mentioned on a recent Top Gear USA episode, the husband bought it for the wife to make up for sleeping with the nanny.

On your second point, I can teach nearly anyone in about 30 minutes to drive a MT. Heck, I drove one when I was 8 years old. Pretty much anyone that drove a car before the 80's learned how to do it. Its not exactly rocket science, and doesn't really prove anything or differentiate you in any way.

That's just my prospective on it. This is a chicken and egg thing. MT drivers call AT drivers "names" or question their abilities, and somehow we are supposed to just take it as fact without trying to explain we see it differently.

I'm not attacking you any more than you claim to be attacking AT drivers. We just have a different opinion about whether having to press a clutch pedal differentiates your ability to drive the car.

I say it doesn't, you say it does. OK, its all good.

:happy0180:

[shawnperolis]

Originally Posted by NemesisPrime909

Dude You flat out insulted alot of people by making a blanket statement. and Many reacted accordingly. You pretty much brought it upon yourself.

But you and the OP take some solace from this, There's a lot of FRS-BRZ meets going on across the nation. at least you have that. Yes the Exclusivity will go away. but that's not what this car was about. so it was to be expected. Remember the GT-R? and how everyone wanted one and couldn't stop talking about it? all that died down after about 2 years I don't expect anything different for the twins.

The only difference for me is I hated The GTR from the get go (more tech than analogue) and I love the twins.

but as I said before, you can take joy from the fact there are enthusiasts for the twins, and at certain points in the year, you can drive to various meets where there will be people who feel just as passionate about the car as you do.

so try to be a bit more optimistic.

Exclusivity is not really what I'm about - it was just my input on the topic. The car would be more exclusive if it only came with a manual trans, no harm in that. I didn't mean to offend anyone with an automatic, I've said that numerous times but the flames keep on coming. I don't see the point of a sports car with an auto, I cannot understand. That's fine. Enjoy the auto, I don't really care all that much. I only started caring when auto owners made this thread about attacking me. It didn't help that a certain someone came on here and starting saying some ignorant ass shit though.

But I do believe the manual transmission is the preferred choice of the motoring enthusiast. Nothing is going to change that for me. You get "that feel" when banging through the gears. It is really special. I'm going to quit this thread because it got insanely out of hand, but I'm going to leave with one of my favorite quotes:

"Driving an automatic is kind of like going to the doctor to have your girlfriend impregnated with a syringe. It has the same end result, but you're missing out on all the fun."

:happy0180: cheers folks, don't let me or anyone else bring ya down! Enjoy your damn car, who gives a crap what other people say on the internet?

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I say it doesn't, you say it does. OK, its all good.

:happy0180:

You think?


So... Are the LittleHawks learning to drive a proper manual gearbox?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Porsche

You think?


So... Are the LittleHawks learning to drive a proper manual gearbox?

Yes. They also know how to pop a wheelie on a Ford tractor.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Yes. They also know how to pop a wheelie on a Ford tractor.

Cool!

I think...

How big is this tractor? Can't you get seriously bent doing wheelies on tractors?

You're just being silly, right?

[rhoyle]

Originally Posted by Porsche

Sure they have clutches.

In fact they have TWO separate clutches. It's like they have a pair of gearboxes and swap back and forth between them. That's why they're called "double-clutch" gearboxes. Porsche PDK "Doppel-Kupplung(sp?)".

What they lack is a clutch PEDAL in the driver's compartment.

They are not automatics in the traditional sense. They are auto(mated)-MANUALS with all the benefits of a traditional manual gearbox; they are controlled by servo-hydraulic mechanisms that do the shifting as instructed by the computer controlled system activated when the driver clicks the paddle for an upshift or downshift.

They're remarkably clever.

The reason they can shift so fast, is that for many of the shifts they are not shifting at all; the next gear has already been selected and when you click the paddle for another upshift, the system disengages the clutch #1 for the current gear while simultaneously engaging the clutch #2 for the pre-selected next gear. It occurs almost instantaneously.

You might want to read a bit about these things. It's impressive to see the ingenious solutions the talented engineers come up with.

You're right. I oversimplified. They don't have a clutch pedal. But they are automatics and they will shift for you if you want them to. Having been behind the wheel of both the Porsche and Ferrari as well as the McLaren, I can attest to how awesome they are. If I were in the market for any of them, that would be the transmission I would choose. In 2006 when I bought my Cayman, the manual was still the transmission of choice. Today, not so much.

As far as how they work, if memory serves, gears 1-3-5 are on one clutch while 2-4-6 are on the other, this is what allows them to switch so quickly as you mentioned.

[ThugNasty]

Originally Posted by shawnperolis

It didn't help that a certain someone came on here and starting saying some ignorant ass shit though.

Apparently claiming that anyone who owns an AT car can't drive, and believing that just because you don't personally drive an automatic, it doesn't deserve to exist don't fall under the category of "ignorant ass shit"

The flames aren't because of your opinion on MT vs AT, they're because of your ignorance and your arrogant attitude. Do you really expect to blatantly insult dozens of people and not expect anyone to retaliate?

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by shawnperolis

I posted my opinion [It kind of kills the "cool" and "exclusive" factors, knowing someone who can't drive can roll up next to me in an autotragic FR-S] and got a lot of crap for it... even though I'm not the one who was being offensive about it, I got all of the shit directed at me.

Gee, gosh, oh golly... I guess that sort of thing can happen on a public forum when one (intentionally or otherwise) hijacks a thread, and (seemingly?) equates a simple drivetrain option with an owner's inability to drive. My two cents: when someone in a BRZ/FR-S does "roll up next to" an MT car, it's very likely to be on a public street, and his (or her) choice of an AT probably has a lot to do with the tradeoffs of driving that car on the street (not in an official drag race or tight slalom course), rather than an inability to operate a clutch. AND... does it really make sense for a manufacturer to limit the potential market for a new car by handicapping its operability merely for the sake of maintaining some kind of misguided snob appeal? My guess is that the Civic Si has been available only with a stick because Honda decided it wasn't worth the development cost to re-engineer an AT for that platform that wouldn't be an embarrassment, not because they wanted it to become a collector's item.

Point: As others have noted, the Scibaru is not an exotic; it's primarily a very practical commuter car that's - simply, for a variety of reasons - fun to drive. It also has an excellent automatic transmission, with overall gearing that is more efficient (higher MPG at legal highway speeds) than the standard MT offering, isn't quite as likely to incur a major out-of-warranty repair (clutch replacement) every 50,000 miles, and is also surprisingly responsive, effective and intuitive. For example, tapping a paddle 'automatically' transitions the car into its 'pseudo-manual shift' mode for a few seconds even without moving the console shift lever. AT owners may also even legitimately feel that their paddle shifters are a bit more "cool" and "exclusive" than a century-old clutch and shift lever that was standard fare on a 1960s pickup truck...

BOTTOM LINE: I strongly suspect that limiting any new auto to a manual transmission option only is a choice made to save development and certification costs, not to maintain some kind of exclusivity or pride of ownership. Without a little help from Lexus' supplier network, it's not likely that we'd be seeing AT BRZs. Subaru Impreza's CV slushbox? EEK!

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Porsche

Cool!

I think...

How big is this tractor? Can't you get seriously bent doing wheelies on tractors?

You're just being silly, right?

Ford 3000 (1970's vintage farm tractor) used on my Grandfather's dairy farm until sold after his passing.

And yes you can get bent, but that can happen popping wheelies on anything.

Plus, its not so much wheelies as getting the front wheel off the ground on a "launch", as much as you can launch a 40HP tractor.

[shawnperolis]

Okay, I said I was done posting on this thread and I promise this is my last post.

I truly am sorry for generalizing people who drive automatics. It honestly was not my intention to be a huge jerk, but I realize that I came off as one. You are no less of an enthusiast if you drive an automatic and you are not superior as a driver just because you drive a manual. Really guys, my apologies. We are all petrol heads here, no need for the strife. Just because I don't understand the point of an automatic sports car doesn't mean it any less viable. My bad, I was wrong.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by shawnperolis

Okay, I said I was done posting on this thread and I promise this is my last post.

Naah... stop that.

You stay right here.

I truly am sorry for generalizing people who drive automatics. It honestly was not my intention to be a huge jerk, but I realize that I came off as one.

I believe you and I accept your gracious apology. You "owned" the mistake, and you made amends.

You're learning to be a man, and I respect that.

Give this old man a hug, *HUG* and stick around.

I encourage others to get a manual gearbox, too. But, if it's just not the right solution for them, I certainly wouldn't want them to miss out on all the REST of the fun, you know? I encouraged folks to get an automatic Miata if they weren't up to the prospect of learning a manual. Different strokes and all that, right?

You're a nice young man, Shawn, and you're learning to be Value Added around here, and that's a good thing.

[shawnperolis]

haha thanks man. I'm really not an ass, I just say some stupid shit sometimes.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by shawnperolis

haha thanks man. I'm really not an ass, I just say some stupid shit sometimes.

Heh.

Don't we all?