Track / AutoX Suspension. Suggestions?

[blkwrxwag]

Originally Posted by GC_Adam

As long as I read the rules correctly, our stress bar is legal for STX for the FRS/BRZ chassis.

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...lo%20Rules.pdf
"G. Strut bars per Section 12 are permitted with all types of suspension,
subject to the following constraints:
1. a 2-point strut bar may be added, removed, modified, or substituted,
but only with another 2-point strut bar.
2. A triangulated (3-point) strut bar may be removed, modified, or
substituted; substitution may be with either a triangulated or a
2-point strut bar. The connection to the chassis (i.e., firewall, bulkhead,
etc) must be in the standard location."

Please correct me if I misread/misunderstood the above information.

No, you are right. My mistake. What confused me is that there is no 2 point bar for the MX5. I'll edit my earlier post.

[GC_Adam]

Originally Posted by blkwrxwag

No, you are right. My mistake. What confused me is that there is no 2 point bar for the MX5. I'll edit my earlier post.

No big, I just wanted to make sure. :happy0180:

[Gopherboy6956]

Originally Posted by blkwrxwag

No, you are right. My mistake. What confused me is that there is no 2 point bar for the MX5. I'll edit my earlier post.

Actually, i think there is something to this. The version of the rules you link to are outdated. In the most recent version, that section has been edited to include this text:

"Subaru BRZ/Scion FR-S - The pair of OE strut tower-to-firewall braces are not considered to be a strut bar per Section 12.18 and are not allowed to be removed, modified, or substituted per Section 14.2.G."

This is at the bottom of page 270.

Now, not sure if this has anything to do with adding an additional brace, but maybe it does if it constitutes "substitution"

[Gopherboy6956]

But, just so we have all the information:

12.18 STRUT BAR
A transverse member connecting the upper or lower suspension mounting
points at the front or rear of the car. Strut bars may be mounted only
transversely across the car from upper left to upper right suspension
mounting point and from lower left to lower right suspension mounting
point. A two-point strut bar fastens only at the left and right suspension
pointing points. A triangulated strut bar has a third area of attachment
at the chassis (e.g., at the firewall/bulkhead). All connections to the vehicle
must be bolted. No connection point to the chassis can be welded.

and here's 14.2.G

G. Strut bars per Section 12 are permitted with all types of suspension,
subject to the following constraints:
1. a 2-point strut bar may be added, removed, modified, or substituted,
but only with another 2-point strut bar.
2. A triangulated (3-point) strut bar may be removed, modified, or
substituted; substitution may be with either a triangulated or a
2-point strut bar. The connection to the chassis (i.e., firewall, bulkhead,
etc) must be in the standard location.

[boredom.is.me]

So the firewall braces would have been considered a strut if there was a stock strut mounted to between the suspension?

14.2.G.2 says a tri stut can be removed, modified, or substituted, but our cars don't have a tri strut. So I assume that that is the reason for:

"Subaru BRZ/Scion FR-S - The pair of OE strut tower-to-firewall braces are not considered to be a strut bar per Section 12.18 and are not allowed to be removed, modified, or substituted per Section 14.2.G."

[polancd]

I dont think GC strut bar modifies, removes or substitutes the tower to firewall braces. It connects camber plate to camber plate. and the camber plates do not touch the tower to firewall brace. So if im understanding the rules correctly you should be fine running any strut bar that doesn't change the factory brace (ie: cusco, gc) but cant use struts with the triangular design (ie: ft86speedfactory or pw jdm). Thats what i took from reading the rules.

[Gopherboy6956]

Well, i know for sure that:
A: For my local region, this will be the first BRZ twin around
B: they aren't very thorough when doing tech

So it probably won't matter for me.

[GC_Adam]

Originally Posted by polancd

I dont think GC strut bar modifies, removes or substitutes the tower to firewall braces. It connects camber plate to camber plate. and the camber plates do not touch the tower to firewall brace. So if im understanding the rules correctly you should be fine running any strut bar that doesn't change the factory brace (ie: cusco, gc) but cant use struts with the triangular design (ie: ft86speedfactory or pw jdm). Thats what i took from reading the rules.

I have had another client run his FT in STX with our complete (inc. Stress bar) system in several AutoX bodies in TX without having any negative repercussions towards any of his suspension modifications.

-Adam

[blkwrxwag]

I truly doubt that anyone at a local event would care, but if you plan on running a national event, I would email Doug Gill at the SCCA to get a clarification.

[Gopherboy6956]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Whoever you spoke to at KW was not properly informed. They are 340/400 for the off the shelf V3s.

For our RCE Tarmac 2's, we use 400/400 as the default rates, but allow customization firmer and softer depending on the user's needs.

Most good suspension shops will allow you to customize your coilovers and make recommendations on what will work for you. Some will have different ideas of what works.

I would stress again that using your budget completely on coilovers and then running stock bushings is not recommended. They really do make a solid difference. I would prefer a Koni + RCE Yellow spring set-up with some key bushings and maybe swaybars every time over 1500 in coilovers. Staging your build in phases is a common way to go and often a good idea depending on the user.

- Andrew

To expand on this - let's say I had more budget - and wanted to go KWv3 or Tarmac II - what bushings would you also replace?

[whataboutbob]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Whoever you spoke to at KW was not properly informed. They are 340/400 for the off the shelf V3s.

For our RCE Tarmac 2's, we use 400/400 as the default rates, but allow customization firmer and softer depending on the user's needs.

Most good suspension shops will allow you to customize your coilovers and make recommendations on what will work for you. Some will have different ideas of what works.

I would stress again that using your budget completely on coilovers and then running stock bushings is not recommended. They really do make a solid difference. I would prefer a Koni + RCE Yellow spring set-up with some key bushings and maybe swaybars every time over 1500 in coilovers. Staging your build in phases is a common way to go and often a good idea depending on the user.

- Andrew

I've modeled my car build off of RCEs for the most part. Stock struts with RCE yellows, 20mm front / 16mm rear adjustable Whiteline bars with adj end links, Whiteline front STB, and Whiteline bushings nearly everywhere I could put them. Car feels very good now.

[OjiGeorge]

Originally Posted by Gopherboy6956

To expand on this - let's say I had more budget - and wanted to go KWv3 or Tarmac II - what bushings would you also replace?

I'm also curious what bushings should be first on the list. I am working within a budget, and probably won't go overboard, but I'd like to do things properly. What are people's thoughts on 'must-have' bushings? Ideally I would like to keep the NVH within reason. My car is used for extended roadtrips, and I don't want to be responsible for any of my passengers loosing their fillings

[Racecomp Engineering]

BEcause the bushings for this car were released over a period of 8 months and still being released, I, like many, had the benefit of installing these incrementally and seeing the effects.

My short list of wife approved/long trip/"I dont want too much NVH" kinda a person bushings are as follows:

Front control arm and caster bushings( WL or AVO) ( AVO makes one that doesnt change caster too)
WL shifter insert
WL rear subframe bushings
WL rear trailing arm bushings
WL rear camber bushings

Buy some good craft beer, borrow a friends press and have a bushing install party, with beer towards the end( some are 9-13% alc).

Alignment next day.

Myles

[OrbitalEllipses]

Buy Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA. Install car parts. What could go wrong?!