Oil cooler needed? Don't know? See some results inside

[The Slow One]

I'm barely seeing 250-260 in the Houston weather, sometimes topping at 270ish. It does depend on what track I go on though...

on the street, I'm seeing anywhere between 195-215(hit 215 while cruising at 85mph.) So I personally don't see the need for a oil cooler yet, but I see myself needing one if I ever decide to track the car during the summer.

[brillo]

I decided to call Amsoil and ask about their 0W-20 product and how it would handle sustained 280ish temps for track days. The tech rep I spoke with didn't seem phased at all about that heat level given the flash point of the oil.

I'm not an oil expert, and I know heat will break it down faster, but in terms of providing protection Amsoil seems to think the oil can take the abuse.

Is the concern about oil life longevity or actual protection during use?

[industrial]

Is there any reason not to use a mocal laminova oil cooler? Seems like it would be a super easy install. Sandwich plate, cooler, a few lines and clamps. There are mounting brackets you can buy and could probably mount it where the stock intake resonator lives after you get rid of it. It seems like that would be ideal since it would heat up the oil faster as well as index the oil temp to the water temp.

[The Slow One]

Its probably what I'm thinking. I use amsoil products as well and my oil report from blackstone says I'm doing pretty well and could actually continue driving on the oil even after 4 track days and ~7500 miles!

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Are you ok with 290-300 degree oil temps under track conditions?

No, as above, 105C is a good target. You want it over 100C to evaporate water moisture out of the oil. How high you go above that really depends on the oil. Lots of high performance vehicles are familiar with ~120C oil temperature, like Audi RS's, which also have oil coolers fitted.

[Pure Automotive]

Just logged some around town driving and some high rpm highway miles. 15 minute trip, the highest I got was 230 F. Car is stock with stage 1 flash, 995 miles, stock Toyota oil. I felt like I was being hard on it holding 6500 RPMs on the highway, but I guess not that bad temperature wise. Before I push it further I'm switching to motul.

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by jeebus

Hmm, maybe this is why after a number of AutoX runs nearing the end of the day my BRZ feels like it's starting to lose a tiny bit of oomph.

Do you have a tune? If not, it could be a combination of oil temps and the test pipe you're running.

More info on test pipes losing power without an ecu tune here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23901

[jeebus]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Do you have a tune? If not, it could be a combination of oil temps and the test pipe you're running.

More info on test pipes losing power without an ecu tune here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23901

yeah, I remember that thread. I still say FA20club is smoking crack about the front pipe causing power-loss from rich AFR. Yeah, it's richer at the tailpipe because some of the unburned fuel shows up but it's not richer in the motor.

[Sportsguy83]

There's a number of people who just bought the Perrin cooler recently, so we probably will start seeing more numbers with cooler soon.

[Huehuecoyotl]

as a contribution to the discussion:

once you go FI, getting the oil hot is easy, even with a SC. the bigger challenge is oil cooler placement with such limited air flow and realestate.

I did note the fact that in the winter time, when ambient temps are really cold, getting the car warmed up takes considerably longer with the oil cooler installed.

for an NA motor, its a nice add on, but the nature 0w-20 is so very thermally conductive compared to say 10w40, so I suspect you will easliy find the cooling efficacy you seek on NA/e85 builds

oil getting hot is an understatement in my geography, and it worked great on track NA for me. Now we will see how it handles FI oil heat

[BatStig]

Seeing @Dave-ROR street temps at 175°F-180°F made me a little concerned. While I'm far from an oil expert, to me that seems a bit low to properly evaporate moisture out of the oil.

Originally Posted by Shankenstein

You can special order a different thermostat for 203 F (95 C) thermostat for $25 more. For those interested: LINK to catalog PDF

This sounds like a feasible solution and one I'm considering, pending some more real world street temp data. Or, maybe I'll have to man up and guinea pig this myself.

[invisage]

Should have mine going on this weekend if all things go well. Will do a test run with it and see how we go. Have a track morning on the 20th too so will have some feedback on both DD and Track hopefully.

[BigFatFlip]

Thanks to @Sportsguy83 for getting this discussion started. I, myself, just started considering FI, so I'm a little late to the party. Lots of good info/discussions here.

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

It's pretty obvious that a daily driver doesn't need an oil cooler otherwise the manufacturer would have fitted one. I'm fairly sure they would have spent considerable time driving the vehicle in all conditions in all scenarios all round the world to come to that conclusion.

Surely the question is more over do people need an oil cooler on track? If so then people who have driven their cars on track have already posted up numbers they've seen, however i've only seen one person post up figures that they've actually seen an oil pressure drop. Until more than one person does that then no, in my opinion, I don't think there is a need for an oil cooler.

Agreed. I would hazard a guess that, knowing their target customers, subaru/toyota has done some track testing aswell to see the extremes for what the oil/motor can handle.

Originally Posted by jpit

We had more severe problems on the 370Z. Some cars would go into limp mode after running three laps on the track with temp closing in on 280. Several magazines mentioned the problem also and eventually Nissan added an oil cooler to the production run. Several of us installed oil coolers and they worked fine except for one problem: during daily driving (and especially during the winter months) the oil temp would take at least a half hour to reach 180 and this was with a 180 degree thermostat. Ideally, engine oil should be between 180 and 210. We had to add a plate in front of the cooler (even 13 row ones) to eliminate some of the cooling. We did find out (and I don't know if this applies to all thermostats) that our thermostats allowed some oil to go into the cooler regardless of temperature. Running oil below 180 can be as bad as running it at 250. My advice (from what I have read so far) is that a DD does not need an oil cooler while a tracked car might benefit.

^This. I would think that the engineers who developed the engine/oil combo had a specific temp range that the engine would be optimized for, so an oil cooler isn't necessarily a "good idea to just have" and just assuming that all heat is bad. A better approach would be to see if an oil cooler is needed to keep you in that ideal operating temperature range, in regular (street) and/or extreme (track) conditions. Easier said than done, but that doesn't sell oil coolers...Just my $0.02

[vtmike]

The trd griffon track car with relatively stock engine has an oil cooler.

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