FT86 vs Competitors (german market)

[spin9k]

Yea, it's tough to build a 'world car' and then always meet/beat local competition and pricing. You have such a better selection when it comes to small attractive cars. Our generally lower pricing on the little we do get is our payback I guess.

[Marrk]

That Peugeot RCZ looks stylish.

And the Renault has gotten great write-ups in the British magazine _Car_.

[torquemada]

Originally Posted by Hasjwandje

These are all cars with much more power except for the MX maybe but thats a convertible and they are always expensive.

If the FT86 / BRZ is going to be more than 27k it's not going to be a succes. In terms of power it will have to compete with the Cio RS and Corsa OPC and the new Fiesta ST ( if they're ever gonna release it ) and these are all 26k and less cars.

Because why would you buy a 30k+ FT86 if you can buy a megane RS for the same amount which is faster and will give u 300+ bhp with only a ECU remap?

they need to get the price spot on other wise it's a shame of all the effort they've put in to it.

I would buy the Megane

and for the giggles

Opel Corsa OPC Nürburgring Edition, 210 hp, 28.000 €



VW Polo GTI, 180 hp, 23.000 €



Fiat Grande Punto Evo Abarth EssEss, 180 hp, 24.000 €



Renault Clio RS, 201 hp, 23.000 €

[Neutral_Eyes]

Looks like you're into hot hatches more than sports cars. That's cool, but the FT-86 is aiming to be a completely different driving experience. You can't really define it through HP per €. Well, obviously you can, and have, but it's silly to do so.

[Marrk]

@Neutral_Eyes: Not to put to fine a point on it, but my understanding is that, at least in the EU, drivers consider "hot hatches" as viable sports car alternatives, if not as proper sports cars. And, when you get right down to it, the FT-86 is going to be something of a compromise car in this respect. (Somebody famously defined "sports car" as "a two-seat open car that, in a pinch, you could race on the weekend.")

I don't have trouble with hatches per se, so much as I have trouble with FWD. But, again, the way they write about these hot hatches, I am left with the impression that the driving experience is much closer to a sports car than it is to, say, a Yaris*. At least the fun factor is way up there. The Clio and Megane are supposed to be quite trick.

BTW, I once drove a base Clio as a rental in the south of France. Much nicer car than its equivalent in the USDM.







*No disrepsect to you Yaris peeps out there.

[torquemada]

don´t get me wrong, I´m not into "hot hatches", but the german market is.
These will be the competition for the BRZ / FT86.

And some of the FWD cars are really good, f.e. the Mini, Audi TT, Ford Focus RS and last but not least the two Renault. The Clio RS and the Megane RS are a bargain, and out of the box capable to race on the track.

[Neutral_Eyes]

Oh I certainly agree they can be fast and fun and handle well. I don't even have a problem with FWD cars, but a balanced FT-86 with RWD will feel very different from a front loaded hot hatch. And unless there are FT-86 drift videos up on youtube currently, that's going to be a very difficult message to relay until we all get to drive one.

[coyote]

Originally Posted by torquemada

wrong, base Cayman starts at 50.700 Euro in Germany

http://www.porsche.com/germany/models/cayman/

If the BRZ costs 35k in the same market you can buy a Cayman for 50k, I'd not expect it to sell very well.

[torquemada]

that´s funny in germany, when you say "base model" you have to look twice if there is a steering wheel....it´s easy to double the base price with some extras especially if it´s a german manufacturer

[Marrk]

@Neutral_Eyes:





This is by no means the final word on the subject, but here is an examole of what I meant.

The article reviews:

Audi RS3 Sportback
BMW 1-Series M Coupe
Citroen DS3 Racing
Mini Coupe John Cooper Works
Nissan 370z GT Edition
Porscje Cayman R
Renaultsport Megane 265 Trophy
Vauxhall Corsa VXR Nurburgring
VW Golf GTI Edition 35.

I leave to you to determine what is and what is not a "sports car." :happy0180:

[cassidy0998]

I'm sorry I just have to get it out of my system.

The BMW 1 series is one of the most ridiculous looking little cars I've ever seen in my entire life.

[Gardus@Supersprint]

As I see tons of european cars and I'm able to test them if not as a driver all the time, at least as a passenger, I can tell you that even it they may not be considered real sports car because they are FWD and hatchbacks (a ITR is a sportscar or not?) many of these cars will leave the ft86 in the dust everywhere, road, track, mountain pass, at the lights.

The Megane RS 250, which I'm considering as my next car if the FT-86 won't be up to my expectations, is really, really fast. M3 fast.
The engine is very strong, with just a full exhaust and a map it goes to 300 bhp/440 nm, and as it's fitted with a LSD and a very good suspension setup, it's one of the most effective cars on sale.

As you may know, the Trophy model, which is a mild (265 hp) tuned version, hold the Nurburgring record for FWD road cars.

In Europe the FT won't sell much becasue of the badge, it's not a premium brand and is better know for 4x4s and Prius, or cheap, generic cars.

The BRZ will probably find a better reception as Subaru is still considered a performance brand, even it's a bit "vulgar" for many.

The good thing is that it'll probably have better road presence and coupès have always been well received in this market...

If they really want to sell a load of these they'll just have to fit the diesel engine from the Impreza...I know it's sad but it's true, 90% of the E92 3 series are diesel over here (320d mostly).
Most of the cars mentioned have a "performance" diesel version:

Megane GT 2.0 hdi
Audi TT 2.0 tdi
Golf GTD
Leon FR 2.0 TDI
Peugeot RCZ 2.0 hdi
BMW 120/123d (the last one is ridiculously fast)
Audi A3 2.0 TDI

Audi A5 and 3 series are most sold in the 2.0 and 3.0 diesel versions.

The problem is many of these cars will be faster than the FT in the real world.

Also, as Subaru is know for very high maintenece costs, many people will discars this car as "not affordable" as a daily driver, and "too slow" as a weekend toy.

Price is a factor. If they can keep it under 30.000 euros with good equipment (I'd say: xenon lights, Mp3, bluetooth / iphone compatibility, half leather or suede seats, 17" wheels, climate control) it'll sell. Otherwise it'll stay at the dealers, as other too expensive japanese cars do (370z mostly).

On a side note, I was able to test a BMW 1M, and I was most impressed, not only by the engine, but by the overall layout and designe, a usable 2+2 coupè, good chassis balance..even it won't march the guts of the engine I hope the FT will be similar. It is already better looking, for starters...

[Marrk]

^^Thanks for that post, Gardus.