Has anyone deleted the resonator in the stock airbox? or made a larger snorkel?

[Silver86]

Originally Posted by sierra

I really don't give a toss what you think.
It covers and blocks the flow to a large part of the heat exchangers and would certainly void the warranty in any claim involving overheating.
It's badly engineered and will likely cause problems.
There's no way I would fit it on my 86 in Australia.

Whether you "give a toss" what he thinks or not, basic laws of thermodynamics shows you to be incorrect in your assumption that it would have any significant effect on the ability of the radiator to do its job.

Heat moves to colder areas, so even if the intake did block 1/3 of the airflow (which it doesn't) the heat is still going to move to colder sections of the car, trying to achieve thermal equilibrium. It would have to actually block 1/3rd of the airflow while at the same time insulating the heat in the section that was obstructed for what you are claiming to come to pass.

At any speed that is going to create a level of heat where the radiator would need 100% convection, the air that wasn't being scooped into the intake would still be forced around the sides and over the radiator.

If this intake created heat issues than the car's front bumper and grill would also cause heating problems. Basically anything that disrupted direct airflow would create heating problems if what you are claiming was true.


Bottom line is stomping your foot and telling people you don't care what they think and that you know more about intakes and thermodynamics than a company who is a extremely well respected intake producer, while at the same time failing basic physics isn't really doing you any justice.

[sierra]

You can make any theoretical excuses you like but blocking the airflow through the heat exchangers by direct placement of a substantial obstruction will adversely affect the efficiency of the cooling system.
The limit of the system will be met much earlier in adverse conditions and the result of meeting and then exceeding that limit will be overheating and the consequences that causes.

It's a poorly designed intake that counts on a large safety factor in the cooling system to avoid serious overheating problems. Not a good idea for a sports car in Australia.

[Silver86]

Originally Posted by sierra

You can make any theoretical excuses you like but blocking the airflow through the heat exchangers by direct placement of a substantial obstruction will adversely affect the efficiency of the cooling system.
The limit of the system will be met much earlier in adverse conditions and the result of meeting and then exceeding that limit will be overheating and the consequences that causes.

It's a poorly designed intake that counts on a large safety factor in the cooling system to avoid serious overheating problems. Not a good idea for a sports car in Australia.

No one ever said it didn't disrupt airflow on some level

The problem is that not only does it not block 1/3'rd of the airflow, it doesn't insulate the heat from seeking thermal equilibrium. Both of these things would be required in order for this scoop to cause the level of heat build up you are claiming.

Nothing is theoretical about what I stated in my last post, its basic physics.

Maybe If your argument wasn't constructed of vague scenarios and didn't conflict/ignore basic laws of physics it would be more convincing.

[Nardi330]

Originally Posted by sierra

It's a poorly designed intake that counts on a large safety factor in the cooling system to avoid serious overheating problems. Not a good idea for a sports car in Australia.

I don't know if the scoop will reduce the efficiency of the radiator but if u have looked at the car with only it's bumper off u will be able to see there is a big beefy metal beam that blocks the top half of the radiator. So your theory doesn't really stack up.

Obviously if someone put a big intercooler that blocks the whole front grill area then that's a different story....

[sierra]

Originally Posted by Nardi330

I don't know if the scoop will reduce the efficiency of the radiator but if u have looked at the car with only it's bumper off u will be able to see there is a big beefy metal beam that blocks the top half of the radiator. So your theory doesn't really stack up.

Obviously if someone put a big intercooler that blocks the whole front grill area then that's a different story....

The beam leaves a substantial gap for the high pressure air to flow through the intercoolers.
When you place an object directly in front of that intercooler you effectively stop that airflow and reduce the capacity to cool by an amount that relates to the area that has been rendered ineffective.

Please don't try to make out there is no disruption the cooling because clearly there is. Buy it by all means but don't mislead others. Not you, just the general denial of any ill effects being claimed.

[Silver86]

The intake isn't even flush with the radiator meaning air is still going to flow around and through.

For this scoop to cause failure you would need to be running your car so hard that your cooling system was completely taxed and actually failed because it didn't have the tiny amount of airflow that this scoop redirects.

If that happens you are a car abuser. You didn't plan and test your machine before going nuts with the pedal and if that is the case then a small amount of airflow redirection is the least of your problems.

Also I really can't find anyone who said that the scoop didn't disrupt airflow, what we (and basic physics) don't agree with is your statement that this scoop is going to cause the level of disruption that would cause the cooling system to become ineffective.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by Silver86

The intake isn't even flush with the radiator meaning air is still going to flow around and through.

For this scoop to cause failure you would need to be running your car so hard that your cooling system was completely taxed and actually failed because it didn't have the tiny amount of airflow that this scoop redirects.

If that happens you are a car abuser. You didn't plan and test your machine before going nuts with the pedal and if that is the case then a small amount of airflow redirection is the least of your problems.

Also I really can't find anyone who said that the scoop didn't disrupt airflow, what we (and basic physics) don't agree with is your statement that this scoop is going to cause the level of disruption that would cause the cooling system to become ineffective.

A few mm of clearance isn't going to allow effective airflow through the intercoolers, they will still be effectively blocked in that area.

The rest of your post is hysterical conjecture. Calm down and accept that the cooling is compromised, there is no doubt about that.
At the very least the warranty for any cooling issues is in serious doubt.

[Silver86]

Originally Posted by sierra

A few mm of clearance isn't going to allow effective airflow through the intercoolers, they will still be effectively blocked in that area.

The rest of your post is hysterical conjecture. Calm down and accept that the cooling is compromised, there is no doubt about that.
At the very least the warranty for any cooling issues is in serious doubt.

The only thing "hysterical" is watching you try to make an argument that no one else is having, while at the same time failing to understand stuff they teach in grade school science classes.

The only conjecture that I can find is in your vague statements and inability to properly backup anything you are saying beyond "Derp, it redirects airflow so car gunna break, if you say different screw you". Very constructive and scientific.

I guess we better grab a pen while the Professor here tells us all how physics really works.

Debating something with someone who neither knows what they are talking about nor is willing to consider any other data is just wasting time so I'm out.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by sierra

A few mm of clearance isn't going to allow effective airflow through the intercoolers, they will still be effectively blocked in that area.

The rest of your post is hysterical conjecture. Calm down and accept that the cooling is compromised, there is no doubt about that.
At the very least the warranty for any cooling issues is in serious doubt.

The scoop wont significantly impede cooling. There is enough room between it and the heat exchangers behind it for airflow to flow around it. Just because something is a few inches in front of it doesn't mean that whole area of the Heat Exchanger is rendered ineffective.

Air acts like a fluid when it is moving. Think about it as if this car was moving forward under water.

[Tylub]

where is this scoop that everyone is talking about??

[wootwoot]

Originally Posted by Tylub

where is this scoop that everyone is talking about??

LOL.... look a page back...

[Walldodger]

Originally Posted by sierra

A few mm of clearance isn't going to allow effective airflow through the intercoolers, they will still be effectively blocked in that area.

The rest of your post is hysterical conjecture. Calm down and accept that the cooling is compromised, there is no doubt about that.
At the very least the warranty for any cooling issues is in serious doubt.

You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.
Warranty is the only area I could see potentially having a problem.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

The scoop wont significantly impede cooling. There is enough room between it and the heat exchangers behind it for airflow to flow around it. Just because something is a few inches in front of it doesn't mean that whole area of the Heat Exchanger is rendered ineffective.

Air acts like a fluid when it is moving. Think about it as if this car was moving forward under water.

I appreciate what you are saying and that's why the impact beam that apparently blocks the flow has less effect than some might imagine. The area in front of the heat exchangers contains higher pressure than the area behind them[since they are a restriction to flow] and the air is drawn through. That's why it's important to vent the air from the engine bay, to maintain that differential in air pressure across the heat exchangers.

If there was a decent gap behind that intake the air will still flow with some restriction but probably not significant but it looks like a lot less than a few inches and that flow restriction would then be significant.

I do understand the basics of airflow since my background is aero engine/airframe.

[ChaChas345]

Originally Posted by sierra

I really don't give a toss what you think.
It covers and blocks the flow to a large part of the heat exchangers and would certainly void the warranty in any claim involving overheating.
It's badly engineered and will likely cause problems.
There's no way I would fit it on my 86 in Australia.

Misleading people with your bro science when companies spend lots of money and R & D. Do you honestly think the company didnt think about something like what you said? When companies like Gruppe M and Max Racing make an intake you honestly dont think they would of noticed any problems with the temperature of the car or seen that the car was over heating if it did cause any problems?

If it were a huge concern/problem they wouldnt of developed or sold the part. They arent some random person who is making these them selves. They are a big company that produces parts for this car and many others. Keep your bro science to your self because I doubt Gruppe M/Max Racing or any other well known/respected company who make intakes for other cars w/ similar designs have much more information on development of such parts. I doubt 2 companies like them would of made a similar intake without thinking about any problems that may occur on there 2000 dollar intake that covers even more area than Max Racings.. Especially considering Gruppe M is widely known to create some of the best intakes on the market.

There is already pieces of metal covering the top half of the intake and the BRZ has a piece covering the top half of the opening. I doubt it would cause any major/minor problems just because a little more was covered. When your driving around cool air will still be sucked into the radiator. Any air that gets sucked into the opening of the car where the radiator and intake duct are at will make it to the radiator. Do you honestly think just be cause a little covering would affect the car that much? Toyota/Subaru spent millions of dollars on R&D and if something covering the opening that much would affect it I am sure they would of changed the design.

Do you know how many other cars have similar intake ducts that are almost identical to the design of Max Racing. Any air that goes into the opening of the car will still go around the duct except for the part that scoops it. Just because its there doesnt mean its going to block all the air that enters. I have friends who live in the desert who have never had a problem with intakes that have similar designs. And Nevada gets some of the hottest temperatures around in the summer. Its not like the duct is placed directly infront of the radiator leaving no space between the 2. It has space between them so any air that travels through will go around the duct besides the scoop. Also the fan in the radiator will be sucking in air so who is to say that the duct blocks all air entering it? Its not like all the air is going to be sucked into the scoop. I am sure anywhere else besides the scoop will just go around it.

People who worry about warranties shouldnt be modding there car IMO. I doubt this duct is that hard to take off if you need to bring it in for service. People who are doubting the duct wont do anything are wrong also. I pm'd a vendor who tested the part and they said it got 6 WHP. Which is on par with other intakes on the market. Add a better filter/silicone tube which will all compliment each other nicely.