Dilemma BRZ vs FRS

[idreamofdrifting]

Originally Posted by Gost

So I am currently in a dilemma. I went to two dealerships today, Subaru and Toyota to check out the cars. Was able to test drive the FRS manual. Love the way the car handles, but for me, it comes down to what kind of deal I can get.

I personally prefer the BRZ interior (the way the center console looks), the push engine button and the heated seats. I could care less about the NAV system. I also like the fog lights standard on the BRZ.

On the FRS, I like the way the scion looks on the outside, and I like how the dash is all a dark color as I prefer a darker interior. I just don't like the center console as much. The BRZ console resembles the JDM and EUDM versions more which I prefer.


So currently, these are the offers on the table.

Scion, with their pure pricing is offering me the vehicle for $24200.00. Add in carpeted trunk matts and the destination charge, comes out to $25050.00. After taxes and DMV fees (NY), comes out to $27.273.00, without the wheel locks which I want to add on. Comes in Black which I want.

Subaru, is offering me a Silver BRZ for 28,300.80, this price includes the rear bumper applique (sp?), chrome fenders (which I can care less about), the rear diffuser (which I also don't care about), auto dimmer with compass, and wheel locks. After tax and DMV fees, total comes out to $31,130. The price that was on the sticker was somewhere in the mid 29k. As I was leaving, the dealer stated to me he may be able to knock the price down to mid 27k but he couldn't make a promise he would have to check with his manager. Unfortunately I want the car in black, he stated he can try to swap it with another dealer, or factory order one and the same prices would apply.

From all your opinions and experiences with purchasing the car, which do you find to be a better deal? Which deal would you take? (The better deal is not the one a person will always take) Please share your opinions.

I will be checking out another dealer tomorrow which I believe has it in black limited manual for an even lower price than the subaru I checked out today.

Also, I wanted to put this in both the FRS and BRZ threads but wasn't sure if the mods would be okay or happy with that.

Always, always GET WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY! You'll never regret it!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by chuy21

Basically it lets you have the car at invoice. Example. A WRB Limited BRZ with no options would be MSRP of $28,265 but with the program you would get the car for $26,882. What could be better is that im not sure if this is the program that does the deal at 2% under invoice, so you would actually get the BRZ for $26,344. All you have to do is donate for 6 straight months (Minimum donation of 20$ so 120$ spent to save $1500). This Program makes the Preimuim BRZ just a little bit cheaper than the FRS.

Invoice BRZ Premium is $25,097 vs MSRP FR-S $25,255.

Actually leave no trace s $20 or so for the ear, not per month.

OP: I was in the same situation and went BRZ limited to have the additional bits. Get the car you want. Check the northeast states (more northeast of you ) they probably have a ton of BRZs in stock.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by chuy21

Why would you pay 30k up front on a depreciating asset? I can get a 0.9% APR load from my credit union for 36-60 months. Thats about $418-691 of interest payed to KEEP my 30k in the bank. I could then put that 30k into a CD or other investming which PAYS ME back more than I lost in my auto loan over the same period of time.

^^This. Anyone with a sound financial background would tell you walking in and paying cash for a car, is pretty stupid. There are tons of <1% APR loans out there. In which case, putting your money ANYWHERE would yeild enough return to pay the little interest you are paying in to the loan (and some). So basically you are getting a free loan...I can't think of any other major purchase where you would get that opportunity!

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

^^This. Anyone with a sound financial background would tell you walking in and paying cash for a car, is pretty stupid. There are tons of <1% APR loans out there. In which case, putting your money ANYWHERE would yeild enough return to pay the little interest you are paying in to the loan (and some). So basically you are getting a free loan...I can't think of any other major purchase where you would get that opportunity!

Assuming your <1% loan is through the dealer (virtually no financial institution is going to give you that rate at least here in Canada unless you're rich - the above case is an outlier), then which way you go depends on what you can negotiate. The dealer is losing money on that loan, and so you may be able to negotiate a better OTD price if you don't take the loan, especially as the dealer does not have to wait to see his profit if you pay up front. (You see manufacturer incentives advertised that work this way - e.g. "1% financing for 3 years OR $1.5k off the cash price").

Now if it's the manufacturer that is paying for the lower rate and not the dealer, and the dealer gets his profit immediately whether you finance or not, then the dealer has no incentive to go to a lower price on a cash sale so you would be better off taking the loan.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Assuming your <1% loan is through the dealer (virtually no financial institution is going to give you that rate at least here in Canada unless you're rich - the above case is an outlier), then which way you go depends on what you can negotiate. The dealer is losing money on that loan, and so you may be able to negotiate a better OTD price if you don't take the loan, especially as the dealer does not have to wait to see his profit if you pay up front. (You see manufacturer incentives advertised that work this way - e.g. "1% financing for 3 years OR $1.5k off the cash price").

Now if it's the manufacturer that is paying for the lower rate and not the dealer, and the dealer gets his profit immediately whether you finance or not, then the dealer has no incentive to go to a lower price on a cash sale so you would be better off taking the loan.

It all depends on the type of car (or manufacturer) of course, and the country. In the US they have more access to different means of financing that we don't have here in Canada (all we really have are banks, in-house financing, or 3rd party). Also, anyone who falls for the $1.5k off with cash purchase is just dumb. You walk in and negociate the price first. Once that is ironed out, then talk financing. Again, this is not the best case scenario if we are talking about Canada, but in the US they do have that ability.

Case in point, I talked my way down $3k off MSRP when I bought my Genesis Coupe...they told me at that kind of discount, they couldn't give me 0% financing which they were touting at the time. I walked away. Next day I got a call and all was good...$3k off MSRP, and 0% financing over 6 years. There would have been ZERO incentive for me to pay cash for that car even if I did have it available (which I did). So instead, a portion of that money went in to GIC's and a few other investments I had going at the time. I made enough money to even compensate for some of the depreciation when it came time to sell. All in all, this scenario would not have been possible if I had paid cash. I would have had to pull my money out to buy something else, and take a bigger hit on depreciation since my money wasn't working for me.

[Sport-Tech]

Yes obviously you negotiate best price, THEN discount the manufacturer's rebate, goes without saying - go in informed. In your GC scenario, it all depends on the risk-free interest you can get on the money - if you are making risky investments to recoup that depreciation it's an apples-and-oranges comparison.

These days, 1-year GICs are giving you what - 1%? (Even US Treasuries are giving a net negative return.) So on $30K you will make 300 a year. If you could get an additional $1.5k off MSRP instead you might be better off. Anyways at least at this point this is all academic for a twins buyer, no BRZ or FR-S sale is going to be offered with in-house <1% financing given the high demand for these cars.

[Burrcold]

If you were going the super conservative GIC route, you would have to match the term to the loan term. So if the loan term was say 5 years, even a GIC return would be closer to 2%. That alone would net you a better return vs taking the $1500 cash rebate.

[Sport-Tech]

^ That assumes you don't have to use some of that $30K to make the monthly payments, so the math is wrong - the 30K is invested for an average of 2.5 years, not 5 if you need the money to pay back the loan. Less interest. Plus the shorter investment time for much of it means no 2% rate for a large portion of that 30K.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

^ That assumes you don't have to use some of that $30K to make the monthly payments, so the math is wrong - the 30K is invested for an average of 2.5 years, not 5 if you need the money to pay back the loan. Less interest. Plus the shorter investment time for much of it means no 2% rate for a large portion of that 30K.

I was making the assumption of straight liquid to play with. Obviously it defeats the purpose if you need to make the payments from that same money. If that was the case, then yes you might as well purchase outright.

[Sport-Tech]

Well if you have $30K for a car you've got 30K for a car, pay it in one lump or pay it in installments. Your approach obviously means you need to earn or get from other savings an additional 30K over the term of the loan. Anyways at today's rates the savings will be marginal regardless.

[wbradley]

Perfect solution, buy it with 50% down. That way it's a compromise.

I'd like to know where people get their money so cheap. I guess it's still pretty tough in much of the US and they gotta move cars.

I'd like to find a way to get another FR-S with coupons.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Well if you have $30K for a car you've got 30K for a car, pay it in one lump or pay it in installments. Your approach obviously means you need to earn or get from other savings an additional 30K over the term of the loan. Anyways at today's rates the savings will be marginal regardless.

That's sort of my point though, if the savings are null, why give your money up front to a dealer, bank, 3rd party lender if you don't have to? Money in my bank, is better than MY money in somebody elses.

[Sport-Tech]

It's not really your money anymore once you have the car, regardless of whether you borrow to pay for it or not. But sure, if you are certain can can earn that extra 30K needed to pay the installments (the penalties for missing any will be severe, and your credit rating will take a hit), and you could not negotiate a better no-credit deal, go for it.

[Gost]

I love how the thread turned into a financial debate. (seriously, not being sarcastic)
The money isn't the problem for me. I'm actually deciding to go with the scion for personal (which most would probably find to be stupid) reasons. And after sitting in both cars a few more times, looking at pictures and videos, I'm starting to feel more for the scion over the subaru. (for reasons that only my own insanity would understand). I know I won't have regrets with the car and that is the most important thing.

But getting down to business, I am definitely looking to see what the best possible deal I can get is. Unfortunately in this cruel world, it's all about connections and getting deals. I could care less what their pure pricing says. I am sure someone is looking to make a sale, and will be able to hook up something.