FRS/BRZ vs. 2013 Civic SI

[Lverasky]

FR-S is way better.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

There's a new article in Modified magazine comparing the 2012 Civic Si to the 2013 FR-S. Stock-for-stock, the Civic was a second or two faster than the FR-S on track but when they both added identical TSW wheels with Hankook R-S3 rubber and KW suspension, the FR-S had a better lap time by about 2 seconds. I gotta say I'm a little surprised, maybe a little disappointed that the FR-S wasn't ahead by more. Testament to Honda's FWD skillz

i think youre gonna find any comparison with the frs and any other car using aftermarket suspension disappointing. the reason for that is how sharp the car comes out of the box. there is simply more room for other cars to grow in the suspension department than there is for the frs.

[Turbowned]

Whoops, I actually mis-read the article. The FR-S was faster stock-for-stock, too.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeed

Having come from a FWD car that's in the Si's class (Speed 3), I refuse to own a FWD sports/sporty car again. Even at their best, they're still clumsy and not particularly sporty - all it did was make me regret getting rid of my RX8, which is actually the entire reason I bought my BRZ. If you're just looking for a slight bump in power over all the practicality and economy of a regular compact sedan, a car like the Si will probably be just fine, but if fun is your focus I'd recommend sticking with RWD and AWD vehicles that were designed from the ground up with performance in mind.

So just because the world auto giants wimped FWD performance does not mean FWD can't be made fun and balanced, it just means sans competition Honda chooses to make a mass market appeal car, if Honda wanted to, with little effort, they could whack 200 to 300 lbs off the SI, slap huge RSB, summer tires, and 20 to 50 HP no problemo, that should put some reality back into where FWD could be with little effort.

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...22_review.html

Yes I know the Mugen R is crazy expensive, but the point is with little effort a plain jane R could be made. 2.2 with: 256bhp (up from 237) and 177lb ft ! ouch "Customers will have the option of keeping the standard Type R interior or paying extra for the same fit-out as the red 'concept' car. This comprises a pair of Recaro racing seats (which were damned uncomfortable for more than an hour of freeway driving), three extra gauges (coolant and oil temp, oil pressure) and...no rear seat. Ditching the Honda's folding rear bench accounts for most of the 230-lb weight reduction Mugen claims.""t's a classic tuner job; high-compression pistons, new cams, free breathing induction system, totally new stainless steel exhaust system, and a Mugen ECU that permits a 500 rpm increase over the standard Honda H20A engine's 8000-rpm ceiling."

Gee for the base R, that is not much in actual mfg cost for 37 HP...

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2KQAXevFs

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2KQA27lJA

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/hon...gen-2011-09-08


A Type R with good summer rubber (stock OEM type) and a larger RSB, simple bolt on +cams can get 220 HP, it is simple to toss out 100 lbs making it as light as a JDM version, low 14s in the 1/4 mile, perfect balance, impressive grip on exit. The speed 3 is just too heavy for FWD, I raced a S40 Volvo with the same chassis and a far better engine IMO (about 275 HP bolt-ons). But that does not mean FWD has and can spank RWD, gee the Type R is 16 years old! The new SI is really an appliance so "beating" one is nothing to write home about, and before we all jump on Honda, is there anything fun at all from: Toyota, Acura, Nissan in the $25K range??? The old style Civic / Integra just has decades of development work and it is going to be very hard to spank them in the near future, but agree since the end of the Type R, Honda has been loss and Toyota is only for oldladies, and the oldlady does not even like them! Still the twins are the future and NOBODY else really is playing.


http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...-civic-si.html

Oh and the rumor is the Type R will return sub 3000 lbs with 300 HP. and since the current Civic, is the first Civic to weigh less then the model before, say 2800 lbs could be done for the 2015 R.
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/13/h...00-horsepower/

[WolfpackS2k]

I'm sorry but there is no way that almost 200 lbs can be taken out of the Civic coupe by removing the rear seats. And if that's true then Honda is utterly retarded for outfitting their cars with seats that heavy.

[BioRage]

I loved 8thgen civics coupe.

But the new generations are hideous.

[wootwoot]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I'm sorry but there is no way that almost 200 lbs can be taken out of the Civic coupe by removing the rear seats. And if that's true then Honda is utterly retarded for outfitting their cars with seats that heavy.

If you read it on the internet it must be true.

[catharsis]

The si is a better daily, the frs/brz a better drivers car.

Now if we're comparing the si coupe to the frs/brz it's a no brainer. But the 4 door si atleast offers better usuability.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by 4U-GSE

As long as Toyota/Subi only offers the all season Prius tires on the FR-S/BRZ/GT-86 this community is going to continue to get, in my opinion, ridiculous comparisons.

I'm surprised to see such misinformation this late in the game - everyone knows the so-called "Prius" tires are not all-seasons, they are summer-only, and they were only equipped on the "sporty" Euro Prius model, never on any NA Prius.

[Moxy]

I sold my 2010 Si to by an frs.

I think the Si is still a fun car, especially over 6k rpm, but it can't touch the frs. You can't have as much fun in a car that understeers that bad

Plus my payments are lower...win!

[Sport-Tech]

From all accounts the Focus ST is the new benchmark for FWD handling, comparisons have it blowing the doors off the standard Si (the limited edition Si HPV or whatever version may be more competitive, but its expensive, as is the ST- latter is about $33K CAD out the door with satnav and leather trim).

[red_comet]

At first I thought comparing the Si and the toyobaru would be like comparing apples and oranges... but upon reflection, I imagine there are a lot of people cross shopping these cars. Though let's not forget, people are dumb.

The problem with the comparison, really, is that the Si despite its new design is an aging concept... young guys didn't mind front wheel drive because they liked the affordable, tossable nature of the old Si cars- that was all there was that gave them everything they needed. Go back to '98, what have you got? Civics, Mustangs, Camaros, Thunderbirds (well, let's pretend), and Miatas. The civic Si gave you a fun ride without the impracticality of the miata, nor the cost of the muscle cars. Other japanese offerings at the time- 3000GT, Eclipse, 300ZX- were usually in another price range altogether.

Now, the playing field is a little different. Mazda is still chugging away with the miata (though they should make a non-rotary closed roof 4 seat sports car for Pete's sake), Hyundai's got its turbocharged butter churn the Genesis 2.0T, and the Mustangs and Camaros that one could actually cross shop with the BRZ/FRS (the V6's, in other words) no longer make you want to crash the car and collect the insurance.

Honda has for all intents and purposes MISSED THE BOAT.

(Good job on killing the S2000, how's that working out for you?)

[Brzetto]

You can't compare a FWD 2 door coupe with a RwD 2 door coupe, at least not realistically. Our car does sortof look like the F12 Berlinetta. I REALLY hate posting with my phone it screws up nearly every post in some annoying way....

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by SubaruBRZLimited

You can't compare a FWD 2 door coupe with a RwD 2 door coupe, at least not realistically. Our car doesbsortof look like the F12 Berlinetta.

why not?