N/A power output potential as race setup?

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by GTB/ZR-1

Messing with the internals on this engine for an N/A application?

Not sure if the juice will be worth the squeeze...

Cams and valvetrain will be worth it and either a stroked/bored (I prefer stroked) would be sweet...

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's REALLY track subjective... but overall, the BRZ/FRS is faster.

And thus my pre-existing desire. I did buy this car with the intention of racing it at some point. I knew the numbers on paper suggested it would be a very good platform and after having it on track I'm so far pleased. But when you're competing, as you already know CSG, the difference of .5 seconds a lap is huge and thus the calculations start to get really narrow.

Basically I'm trying to measure twice and cut once... or in this case measure 1000 times before spending $50k.

[DarkSunrise]

I think cams will be the hot ticket item if staying NA. There's been some data showing the engine can take more rpm, the trick is getting it to breathe up there. With the right set of cams and some exhaust mods, I think 200whp should be possible. Will be expensive though, and a pain to install due to the boxer layout

[CSG Mike]

The question is, how long will it last with an increased redline?

I'd love to see short interval UOA's on an engine with JUST an increased redline, and an engine with increased redline and cams.

[naikaidriver]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Unfortunately Autocross is irrelevant to my application. No offense, just a different world entirely.

No offense taken!

If it wasn't for the TT and Track Day availability here in the Tennessee Valley being abysmal, I would NOT be running Solo events. Slow motorsports is better than no motorsports I guess.

Scott

[DanoFA20]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The question is, how long will it last with an increased redline?

I'd love to see short interval UOA's on an engine with JUST an increased redline, and an engine with increased redline and cams.

No idea if its true but with the right cams and tune apparently our valve train can see 9k. i forgot where i saw this but i think Ferrea said something about it.

TRD is in development for cams i saw somewhere as well ill try to find the sources.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DanoFA20

No idea if its true but with the right cams and tune apparently our valve train can see 9k. i forgot where i saw this but i think Ferrea said something about it.

TRD is in development for cams i saw somewhere as well ill try to find the sources.

There's a difference being not immediately failing, and being able to last 100k miles.

E.g.: F20C in the S2000 will do 9k all day long, but a K20 in a Civic at 9k will grenade after a while (but not immediately fail).

[DanoFA20]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

There's a difference being not immediately failing, and being able to last 100k miles.

E.g.: F20C in the S2000 will do 9k all day long, but a K20 in a Civic at 9k will grenade after a while (but not immediately fail).

True that. i guess only time will tell us the answer. i think it would be pretty awesome to get this puppy to rev higher i mean it is 12.5:1 Comp. should rev a bit higher dont yah think? i mean E46 M3 S54 engines rev to 8300 and are 13.4:1 granted it is an ITB L6 Double Vanos engine but still sometimes i think they could have made it a 8000RPM redline.

I feel like the engine sort of wants to go more than 7450.

maybe because its like 20 degrees F around here

[industrial]

Originally Posted by DanoFA20

No idea if its true but with the right cams and tune apparently our valve train can see 9k. i forgot where i saw this but i think Ferrea said something about it.

TRD is in development for cams i saw somewhere as well ill try to find the sources.

I'm pretty sure Ferrea meant with their upgraded valvetrain components too. I'd think you'd want upgraded springs and retainers. Ferrea has a few different sets coming out which will work great in conjunction with other engine work to ensure reliability at high rpm.

The way I see it, if you want to rev higher (for NA), you want cams. If you have the engine open for cams, might as well at least get springs, retainers and balancing done.

[CSG Mike]

the stock head and/or cams prevent it from really making power over 7k

It's not like the Honda engines that continue to make more and more power as they rev. F20C, not so much, but K20 variants, B16/B18 variants, and F22C...

[Levi]

That is what I'm waiting for too. As some can see, I havn't bought the GT86. I'm always waiting for some racing NA-kit making + 250 PS at the crank. No news from Cosworth yet. An increased capacity engine kit could work, but I'd like the keep 86x86. I don't know why we still have no good NA kits. There are S2K making 300 PS crank NA.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I have future plans of racing the FRS. I'm looking at a variety of classes and with different rule sets, that means I'm also looking a massive variety of costs. I'm curious about N/A potential in a racing only application but yet does consider cost vs reliability of build. I would like to build something that I can afford to build but also that I can leave at the track in a ball of fire without shedding too many tears. Cuz racecar.

So...

What type of power to the rear wheels is feasible assuming:

1: Mild engine works such as port and polish, blueprint and balance, maybe cams.
2: Lightened flywheel/pulley/driveshaft
3: Race tuning including some increase in redline
4: Race only Intake, header and exhaust (under 98dB) with no cats.
5: Pump gas. No E85 up here and I'd prefer not spend 10-12/gallon on fuel (since racing uses lots-o-fuel).

I know there's some tuners that have played with some race only headers and exhausts but I have seen anyone with ported/polished heads and I don't know what benefits that makes on Boxers.

I think those 5 things on the list would put the build within budget and are conservative enough a build that it wouldn't exclude from too many classes not to mention be reliable and if the car can make 200-215 at the rear wheels that would put me in range of competing in a pretty fun/fast and competitive class. I'd be really interested if those numbers could be made without step #1.

Anyway, I'd like to invite the parts manufacturers and tuners in to discuss what they think might be possible.

Thank you

Kind of a tough one to answer, you should know that your build is limited to the rules set by the racing organization. What classes were you interested in entering for the FRS?

Exhaust and intake is usually an accepted modification for all classes, but internals like cams, valves, pistons, rods, etc, arnt always allowed.
IMO you want to get into the chassis & drivetrain building department to get the most competitive edge in any class and race.

If you were going for a time attack deal, running on 2WD Unlimited N/A, for power id ditch the stock ECU and go standalone, bump the compression even higher, raise the rev limit, port and polish heads, and lighten your rotating assembly, low friction parts, larger main port injectors, large aux port injectors, aggressive cams, sleeve the block, advance some timing, Bump ignition efficiency, oil cooler, dual pass radiator, dry sump, block bracing.

Rather than total peak power, id be more interested in getting the engine to respond more to input to plow through corners. To me, if your building a competitive N/A its not about speed, its about rotation.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Levi

That is what I'm waiting for too. As some can see, I havn't bought the GT86. I'm always waiting for some racing NA-kit making + 250 PS at the crank. No news from Cosworth yet. An increased capacity engine kit could work, but I'd like the keep 86x86. I don't know why we still have no good NA kits. There are S2K making 300 PS crank NA.

i thought all the big hp n/a s2000s have been AP2 with the bigger engines F22C.. don't know if i ever saw a F20C with 300hp n/a...

anyway, gotta also understand that the F20C is made to produce horsepower. The FA20 is made to be sporty and livable. Key is where TQ is applied. FA20 scavenges amazing TQ at low revs and peaks again at 6400, while the F20C peaks its TQ at 7500.

If you try to apply the same mods as the F20C, as you would to the FA20, they will respond much differently to them. IMO, the brz/frs will perform much better with more peak hp for acceleration, and sacrifice some of that TQ.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Kind of a tough one to answer, you should know that your build is limited to the rules set by the racing organization. What classes were you interested in entering for the FRS?

Exhaust and intake is usually an accepted modification for all classes, but internals like cams, valves, pistons, rods, etc, arnt always allowed.
IMO you want to get into the chassis & drivetrain building department to get the most competitive edge in any class and race.

If you were going for a time attack deal, running on 2WD Unlimited N/A, for power id ditch the stock ECU and go standalone, bump the compression even higher, raise the rev limit, port and polish heads, and lighten your rotating assembly, low friction parts, larger main port injectors, large aux port injectors, aggressive cams, sleeve the block, advance some timing, Bump ignition efficiency, oil cooler, dual pass radiator, dry sump, block bracing.

Rather than total peak power, id be more interested in getting the engine to respond more to input to plow through corners. To me, if your building a competitive N/A its not about speed, its about rotation.

Get some titanium pistons & rods to take on that high compression!