2nd gear synchro FIX- MT owners read this thread

[Sargy]

Just bought all my fluids yesterday and swapped them (ow-30 signature series from amsoil, pentosin mft2, motul 300)~$250 in wallet damages


But its worth it

I was laughing when I went into 2nd this morning.

12k Miles on the car.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by SkAsphalt

I know this idiot was banned for a lot of reasons but deep down inside, I hope he was banned for his inability to write coherently.

It seemed like everything he said was a long winded rant that went in circles.

On-topic: double clutched into second today! God I hate this box when cold. Those of you with ANY aftermarket fluid, do your gears sometimes "click" on shifts when cold? The most aggravating thing is feeling resistance almost like a gear is grinding, but not hearing that sickening sound. I want to KNOW if I'm damaging the synchros man.

[King Tut]

I have Redline MTL90, and I have the same issues man. I have never heard anything that sounds like damage to the box, but those first couple 1st to 2nd gear changes still don't feel great. I definitely feel resistance. I have just decided to accept it as normal and forget about it.

[OrbitalEllipses]

I figured as much.

[reeves]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

On-topic: double clutched into second today! God I hate this box when cold. Those of you with ANY aftermarket fluid, do your gears sometimes "click" on shifts when cold? The most aggravating thing is feeling resistance almost like a gear is grinding, but not hearing that sickening sound. I want to KNOW if I'm damaging the synchros man.

Yea i get that sound too.. more like a metal hitting metal sound, but a little muted.. if that's what you're refering to as "click".

I used to drive an RSX, and still have an mr2.. both have occasional 2nd gear grinds too.. so I'm kinda used to cars with these issues. I just hate it on this car because it's brand new.

[Esoteric]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I have Redline MTL90, and I have the same issues man.... I have just decided to accept it as normal and forget about it.

MT90 is too thick to feel smooth.
We have tried about 5 different things in the test car. MT90 and MTL are worlds apart... For example.
If you want to use Redline, go with MTL or MT-85 for smoother shifts.

Pentosin / Redline MTL / Joe Gibbs are all thin enough to get rid of the grind completely, or almost always. We have sold a lot of the Penstosin and it works so great the only down side it cost. You don't have to live with a notchy trans.

[roddy]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

It seemed like everything he said was a long winded rant that went in circles.

On-topic: double clutched into second today! God I hate this box when cold. Those of you with ANY aftermarket fluid, do your gears sometimes "click" on shifts when cold? The most aggravating thing is feeling resistance almost like a gear is grinding, but not hearing that sickening sound. I want to KNOW if I'm damaging the synchros man.

I got the "click" with MT-90 on the 1-2 and (rarely) the 2-3 shifts. When I tried a thinner mix (MTL and Honda fluids), the 1-2 was much better, but the 2-3 click happened more often (still not a lot, though). Pentosin cured it all the way around for me. I never did get around to trying MT-85. Others have said it works well.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by roddy

I got the "click" with MT-90 on the 1-2 and (rarely) the 2-3 shifts. When I tried a thinner mix (MTL and Honda fluids), the 1-2 was much better, but the 2-3 click happened more often (still not a lot, though). Pentosin cured it all the way around for me. I never did get around to trying MT-85. Others have said it works well.

1-2 cold always feels rough, but it's definitely 2-3 where I'm getting the "click" sound. Hm...might have to look into Pentosin at some point.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Esoteric

MT90 is too thick to feel smooth.
We have tried about 5 different things in the test car. MT90 and MTL are worlds apart... For example.
If you want to use Redline, go with MTL or MT-85 for smoother shifts.

Pentosin / Redline MTL / Joe Gibbs are all thin enough to get rid of the grind completely, or almost always. We have sold a lot of the Penstosin and it works so great the only down side it cost. You don't have to live with a notchy trans.

Hey Esoteric,

I just put a order in on your website, it gave me a option to ship to Canada so i went ahead with the order.

You guys do ship to canada right?

[shu5892001]

Seeing the Pentosin has a much lower viscosity @ 100°C then 75W90 oils, while it does offer better cold flow but will it offer less protection when the transmission is hot, say like on the track?

[GoSharks]

Originally Posted by shu5892001

Seeing the Pentosin has a much lower viscosity @ 100°C then 75W90 oils, while it does offer better cold flow but will it offer less protection when the transmission is hot, say like on the track?

Since it is used in most Euro brands, including BMW M3's, etc., and that viscosity is not a measure of protection. This is discussed at length in this thread. I went with Pentosin or I was a) getting a new transmission through warranty (good luck with that), or b) selling the car. This is unacceptable in a modern transmission to have this kind of BS issue in my opinion.

I remember when we used to use 20W50 Racing engine oil. Thanks to synthetics and better additives, we can go with much lighter oils.

[mangostick]

This is a lot of info to take in and I skimmed most of it.. while I'm not having a problem I'm curious if anyone has tried subaru super S ?

I'm not a chemist or know how to break down a oil to its functional bits but I can say that stuff worked REALLY well in my WRX transmission. They're especially known to be notchy.

Its around $8/qt.. much cheaper than the bimmer stuff.

[SubieNate]

The WRX transmission requires a GL5 because the center and front diffs are inside the transmission and they need more protection than either the regular transmission bearings or synchros.

The Aisin unit in the 86 specs a GL3 or 4, a GL5 would be even thicker and also have additives that would likely not play nice with the transmission components.

Cheers
Nathan

[Black Tire]

I think we are the victims of the bean counters and the Toyota marketing department. Why on earth would a modern car manufacturer recommend a gear oil with a spec that has been inactive since 1995? Perhaps because they want to coerce people into the dealers for service. Do they expect us to put in something like this:

http://www.millersoils.co.uk/automot...ector=Classics

This seems to be a 90W only oil, but it is the only one I could find with an internet search for a GL-3 oil.

Also, we must remember that this car was developed with heavy marketing. They talked to a lot of enthusiasts, and being marketing people, may have misunderstood the enthusiasts desire for a clean shifting transmission to one that was notchy. Perhaps they never had it tested at a very cold start. Would you give a prototype to a person without warming it up first? Or perhaps the marketing people felt that the notchy feeling was best for sales. In this day and age, the marketing department trumps the engineering department every time. Why do you think we have engine sounds piped into our cabins? It wasn't because some engineer said that the car would go faster and run better if we bleed some of the sound off the intake to the passenger cabin to relieve sonic compression impediments.

My FR-S is completely stock and has over 13,000 miles with the original transmission fluid (mostly highway miles so far). Shifting into 2nd from cold is often very difficult, and I usually double clutch and take my time when it is acting up. This doesn't always happen. Sometimes it shifts into 2nd just fine when it is cold. This is why I think that bushings may be part of the trouble.

The transmission isn't the only part of the car that does not really like the cold. When I come out of work after 8 hours, the entire car needs warming. It has been fairly cold in Minnesota this year with temps on many days <10F after work. The car will not move quickly when started cold in these conditions and seems to not want to make power at all until it is warmed up a bit. (Note: Amsoil 0W-20 signature oil is in the engine, so cold flow should be just fine.) I have taken to lapping the parking lot in second gear for a couple of minutes to warm things up before going on the highway. After just this brief warm-up, it shifts into 2nd gear just fine.

After reading this entire thread, I think I will do the following:

1. Get Perrin or other aftermarket shifter bushings and transmission supports, and possibly other braces. I really think that much of this could be the result of soft bushings in the transmission linkage and mounting.

2. Try Amsoil 75W-90 GL-4 MTF for spring-summer-fall transmission duty (O.K., I'm a real Amsoil fan so I would really like to try this myself) that will include track use, and Amsoil or Motul in the differential. I think I may change to Pentosin for next winter.

I would really like to thank everyone who posted really good information here! This is a discussion that was really needed. I will try to update when I have the results of my tests.