New member - A few things on my mind.

[ZetaVI]

I'm not crazy about its performance. I just hope it lives up to its AE86 history as the perfect car to drift.

[cassidy0998]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

Those "target" items were slightly overstated to garner tons of initial interest and probably push internal development.

Say 30% of those initially interested walk away because it doesn't live up to expectations. From Toyota's marketing POV... that's OK! Because 100% of the people who would have settled for less did end up buying it including some who were on the fence. At least more than enough people knew about it. A classic marketing tactic that works. (Unfortunately used in the housing industry where buyer and seller agree on a price, put money into an approval process, then get rejected months later by banks who want tens of thousands more ...but I digress.)

On the other side of this token... engineering and manufacturing are given target specs and a cost slightly beyond what's achievable. Big boss Akio commands his marketing team to announce that target to... the WORLD?! That holds developers accountable not to big boss but the ultimate boss - the consumer. Developers are forced to innovate. Near the end of development - which probably happened this past week - they realize they will miss the target (barely). Don't tell the customers yet; they might dismiss our project prematurely! Yes, we missed our target but we worked our asses off (any ft86clubbers notice this?) to deliver our best possible product. To be fair, customers will get their chance to dismiss/approve our work on the showroom floor and test drive. Pushing the envelope - a classic practice on the development side of the corporate world.

In the end, most people on either side of the token will be happy. A few will walk away disappointed.

Very well said; I am curious - Where do you stand with this car? I know it's hard to be certain about something that we don't have official specs and prices for, but I am wondering which way you are leaning, and how far you are willing to lean when it comes time to purchase this car, if you are considering that route.

[Hachiroku]

Originally Posted by solu

i got a question aswell. might sound a bit stupid but ive never bought a new car directly when it came out so what im basicly wondering is:

the german autobild says release "May 2012". does that mean the car will just start to be produced in may or can you order the car earlier already and the first cars are being given out in may? how does that work? and how long does toyota and scion usually take to produce a car? 3 months?

Production line begins May 2012 at Subaru's build center in Gunma Perfecture, Japan. You'll be able to order earlier.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by cassidy0998

Very well said; I am curious - Where do you stand with this car? I know it's hard to be certain about something that we don't have official specs and prices for, but I am wondering which way you are leaning, and how far you are willing to lean when it comes time to purchase this car, if you are considering that route.

In college I was taught to do calculations based on the worst case scenario so naturally I've been expecting the lesser power, higher weight, and higher cost within the expected marketed ranges. Even if the final product fell at the worse ends, I wouldn't dismiss it til I've driven it (plus I'm not too picky about power/weight as I am on price since I don't go to the track).

I'm answering a little late (after the spec leak)... but the fact Toyota met spec goals makes me think they'll deliver on the average expected price ($25k) instead of my original expectation (on the higher end, $28k).

[solu]

Originally Posted by Hachiroku

Production line begins May 2012 at Subaru's build center in Gunma Perfecture, Japan. You'll be able to order earlier.

how long does toyota / subaru / scion usually take to produce a car? the production time can change alot from manufacturer to manufacturer.... for example volkswagen needs like 3 months. A hyundai can take up to 8 months. Im not willed to wait another 8 months after the release date in may to get my hands on the car...

[Kids Heart]

I'm calling it right now. The base model Scion will start $19k.

[enc0re]

Originally Posted by Kids Heart

I'm calling it right now. The base model Scion will start $19k.

No way. They'll want some daylight between the tC and this. I'm calling $23K. Surely it'll be at least as much as a Civic Si.

On the upside, that should be enough for a little bit of kit from the premium model. Personally, I'm crossing my fingers for the auto climate control.

[iff2mastamatt]

Originally Posted by enc0re

No way. They'll want some daylight between the tC and this. I'm calling $23K. Surely it'll be at least as much as a Civic Si.

On the upside, that should be enough for a little bit of kit from the premium model. Personally, I'm crossing my fingers for the auto climate control.

If they're only going to release two per dealer, then the FR-S' are going to sell like hotcakes (regardless of the price)! i hope the base scion is dirt cheap, but I have a feeling that the base will be about 24-25k and then one fully loaded will be 30k+. I just wonder how many of these "accessories" will be available at launch.

[pastuch]

I've driven every single single sports car on the market under $50000 and I hate almost every single one of them. The RX-8 is more fun to drive than a 370z. Nissan/Infiniti should be ashamed of the standard transmissions they put in their cars.
My 1990 Miata is more fun to drive than any of todays heavy shit-boxes. Safety features and crash-proof frames are ruining sports cars.

Mustang/Camaro/Genesis/G37/370z Review: FAST AND BORING! Bloated, heavy, no steering feel, abysmal transmissions. They all suck.

Light, nimble, "Feels fast" and a superb manual transmission are all that matter. If the FRS/BRZ are as much fun to drive as an NA Miata then I'll buy one... even if it takes 9 seconds to reach 60mph.

To quote Jeremy Clarkson: The MX-5 “feels more alive at 30 mph than most cars do at 100”

That comment above is all I want from the FRS/BRZ

Edit: Test Drove another RX7 FD and a Honda S2000 recently... MAGIC. This is what SPORTS CAR is supposed to feel like. Oh and the transmission in the S2000 shits all over any car currently in production today. I want to try an NSX so bad now it's crazy.

[Giccin]

Originally Posted by pastuch

I've driven every single single sports car on the market under $50000 and I hate almost every single one of them. The RX-8 is more fun to drive than a 370z. Nissan/Infiniti should be ashamed of the standard transmissions they put in their cars.
My 1990 Miata is more fun to drive than any of todays heavy shit-boxes. Safety features and crash-proof frames are ruining sports cars.

Mustang/Camaro/Genesis/G37/370z Review: FAST AND BORING! Bloated, heavy, no steering feel, abysmal transmissions. They all suck.

Light, nimble, "Feels fast" and a superb manual transmission are all that matter. If the FRS/BRZ are as much fun to drive as an NA Miata then I'll buy one... even if it takes 9 seconds to reach 60mph.

To quote Jeremy Clarkson: The MX-5 “feels more alive at 30 mph than most cars do at 100”

That comment above is all I want from the FRS/BRZ

Edit: Test Drove another RX7 FD and a Honda S2000 recently... MAGIC. This is what SPORTS CAR is supposed to feel like. Oh and the transmission in the S2000 shits all over any car currently in production today. I want to try an NSX so bad now it's crazy.

I also hated this crash proof adds that most cars have... but after being rear ended by a stupid kid who wasn't looking at the road going 45mph(72kph)(also found out that he was going 45) and totaling our car 10' FIT. Iono man. I'll take some of that extra added stuff just in case.

Also the S2k's Tranny is awesome I agree! But on canyon carving runs you start getting white hands. Which are essentially gripping your steering wheel with a death grip and not getting circulation through. Lol

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by Giccin

Also the S2k's Tranny is awesome I agree! But on canyon carving runs you start getting white hands. Which are essentially gripping your steering wheel with a death grip and not getting circulation through. Lol

That is a great problem to have... I found the clutch in the S2000 heavy with very short travel but I'm sure I just need to get used to it. The shifter has wonderfully short throws with a superb direct-notchy feel. I LOVE the shifter, it's bodacious.

Nissans on the other hand... holy christ where do I start? Nissan transmissions are about as driver focused as a stoned 16 year old driver with a smart phone in his hand!

Funny fact: I've never liked any car that weighs more than 2800 pounds. I didn't realize that my 1994 WRX hatch weighed 2800 pounds. I fit 8 DINING ROOM CHAIRS IN THAT THING! Amazing.

[FBS]

Two things I'm still concerned about: the first is the price. The second is the shifter and pedal feel. I've driven a number of Subarus, mostly the cheap ones and very pointedly never an STi, but the shifters have always been vague and rubbery and disappointing. Soft brake pedals can be a problem too.

I'm sure Subaru engineers are perfectly capable of designing a wonderfully direct shifter, but in the back of my mind I fear they may have overlooked it in the name of cost-cutting.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by pastuch

Edit: Test Drove another RX7 FD and a Honda S2000 recently... MAGIC. This is what SPORTS CAR is supposed to feel like. Oh and the transmission in the S2000 shits all over any car currently in production today. I want to try an NSX so bad now it's crazy.

FDs are great cars. They have some annoyances, but as a car for people who love to drive, they are outstanding.

NSXes are great too, but honestly they have high enough limits that they don't have the magic at lower speeds like your Miata. They are fantastic track cars though. S2000s are good on track and autocross also, but if you drive them normally enough around town their magic wears off too IMO (it's why I sold mine).

However, yes, the S2000 transmission is by far the best transmission I've ever used, and that includes multiple Porsches, Toyotas, Hondas, etc.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by FBS

Two things I'm still concerned about: the first is the price. The second is the shifter and pedal feel. I've driven a number of Subarus, mostly the cheap ones and very pointedly never an STi, but the shifters have always been vague and rubbery and disappointing. Soft brake pedals can be a problem too.

I'm sure Subaru engineers are perfectly capable of designing a wonderfully direct shifter, but in the back of my mind I fear they may have overlooked it in the name of cost-cutting.

The STI shifter sucks ass too. It's horrible. In fact, I'm not even sure I can describe how horrible it is.

Luckily, this transmission has nothing in common with the STI transmission.