A Week of A/T Manual Shifting Mode

[Demandred7]

Originally Posted by zoomzoomers

I too tend to go to the floor shifter in manual mode. It just feels more right to me. Go figure, it was that way with my previous E46 M3 with SMG. I just hate how they dumb'd down the shif pattern by making you push forward for upshift and back for downshift. The proper way is push forward for downshift and back for upshift.

On a side note, does anyone know whether there's a difference between "sport" on and manual and "sport" off? Does going to manual automatically put you into sport mode? Always wondered.

Pretty sure sport mode changes the throttle mapping and shifts are faster (and less smoothed out). Also, manual mode does not automatically engage sport mode (otherwise the dash light would come on).

Apparently there is a DIY for your perceived backwards shifting. Personally, I like it the way it is, but, each to their own preference.

[Demandred7]

Originally Posted by mechaghost

sport mode has no effect in manual mode, sport mode pretty much makes it hold gears longer and shift a little harsher

Maybe I am mixed up, but, the shifts seem to feel faster in sport mode.

[zoomzoomers]

Originally Posted by Demandred7

Pretty sure sport mode changes the throttle mapping and shifts are faster (and less smoothed out). Also, manual mode does not automatically engage sport mode (otherwise the dash light would come on).

Apparently there is a DIY for your perceived backwards shifting. Personally, I like it the way it is, but, each to their own preference.

I'm sure everyone has their own personal preference, but that's the way it's done in race cars. I can't say I know the true reason behind it, but it may be because all the g's that race cars go through. Plus, I guess you'd be braking as you downshift so pushing forward makes sense I guess.

[Demandred7]

Originally Posted by zoomzoomers

I'm sure everyone has their own personal preference, but that's the way it's done in race cars. I can't say I know the true reason behind it, but it may be because all the g's that race cars go through. Plus, I guess you'd be braking as you downshift so pushing forward makes sense I guess.

It finally makes sense.

I guess I need to drive more powerful cars.

[Ocala FR-S]

Originally Posted by Demandred7

Maybe I am mixed up, but, the shifts seem to feel faster in sport mode.

We should feel it. I found this same quote in a couple different reviews that seemed authoritative enough. "...a Sport Mode that quickens shift times and throttle response as well as shifting at higher rpm."

The owners manual in describing sport mode states "lower gears are used and gears change at a higher engine speed." It also states the obvious that sport mode controls are not carried out while in manual mode. No mention of quicker shifts and throttle response. But, the owners manual glosses over a lot of details.

I can't find anything that says whether or not the quicker shift times and throttle response of sport mode are also utilized in manual mode. Without yet having tried to discern this for myself, I would guess that manual mode works in one way without regard as to whether it is activated from normal mode or sport mode, and that manual mode would always take advantage of the quicker shift times and throttle response.

I suppose the shift response in manual mode could change depending on whether sport mode is on or off. Or maybe it only makes a difference while in temporary manual mode. I rather doubt all that.

I'll have to wait a week to compare the different modes so as not to disrupt my religious vow to drive only in manual mode all week.

Has anybody found documentation or had a clear experience to determine if manual shift mode utilizes the quicker shift times and throttle response of sport mode?

[Nezz]

Sport VSC == Vehicle stability control and throttle response, so it's seperate to "Sport" mode on the transmission. this is one of the few cars left where the transmission isn't controlled by the ECU directly. Two seperate brains! I've driven some older cars the same with a "sport" mode for the traction control and a seperate brain for the engine-- Turning on "Sport" traction control/power delivery and "winter" on the trans confused the shit out of a turbo Volvo.

(So you know, manual cars have the sport VSC and traction control buttons)

[smbrm]

I wish that the gear you are in would also show in addition to "D" when in drive. That would allow better use of paddles especially for downshifts when you want to get into the torque band.

The trick to using the paddles when doing sharp turns where the paddles may be out of position is to upshift early before you start to turn. 1rst gear is really probably lower than it needs to for the engine(uses a lot of fuel), whereas the engine can pull easily in 2nd.

[Ocala FR-S]

Originally Posted by Nezz

Sport VSC == Vehicle stability control and throttle response, so it's seperate to "Sport" mode on the transmission. this is one of the few cars left where the transmission isn't controlled by the ECU directly. Two seperate brains! I've driven some older cars the same with a "sport" mode for the traction control and a seperate brain for the engine-- Turning on "Sport" traction control/power delivery and "winter" on the trans confused the shit out of a turbo Volvo.

(So you know, manual cars have the sport VSC and traction control buttons)

I'm aware of the buttons on the M/T. Nothing being discussed here regards the vehicle nanny features. It may be that VSC = throttle response. At least for purposes of the nanny function for throttle cutoff to regain control when tires break loose. But clearly the A/T has throttle response features apart from VSC as the A/T has a rev matching feature that is only present in the A/T. The quote I cited from the review referenced throttle reponse with regard to A/T shifts. Short of some abrupt nanny intervention, nothing in my experience or research has pointed to VSC as controlling the shifting performance of the A/T.

[Ocala FR-S]

Originally Posted by smbrm

I wish that the gear you are in would also show in addition to "D" when in drive. That would allow better use of paddles especially for downshifts when you want to get into the torque band.

The trick to using the paddles when doing sharp turns where the paddles may be out of position is to upshift early before you start to turn. 1rst gear is really probably lower than it needs to for the engine(uses a lot of fuel), whereas the engine can pull easily in 2nd.

Amen to seeing the gear number while in drive. It is difficult to know what to expect when initiating temporary manual control while in normal or sport mode. As I am exclusively using manual mode, I am learning what engine sound, torque feel, tach reading and MPH add up to the gear number displayed. I expect I'll know what gear I'm in even in normal or sport mode. But really, couldn't we just have the gear number display. Cruising quietly along at 40 mph in normal mode, I'll never know if I'm 2 or 3 paddle slap downshifts away from a 3rd gear passing maneuver.

So far I'm opting for the late upshift on slow turns after the wheel returns to near straight ahead. I'll try the early shift and see how that goes.

[Demandred7]

Originally Posted by Ocala FR-S

Amen to seeing the gear number while in drive. It is difficult to know what to expect when initiating temporary manual control while in normal or sport mode. As I am exclusively using manual mode, I am learning what engine sound, torque feel, tach reading and MPH add up to the gear number displayed. I expect I'll know what gear I'm in even in normal or sport mode. But really, couldn't we just have the gear number display. Cruising quietly along at 40 mph in normal mode, I'll never know if I'm 2 or 3 paddle slap downshifts away from a 3rd gear passing maneuver.

So far I'm opting for the late upshift on slow turns after the wheel returns to near straight ahead. I'll try the early shift and see how that goes.

I have found that using the floor shifter, there is a certain degree of NVH transmitted through even the AT that I can execute a well timed gear change better than when using the paddles. You may notice the same.

At WOT on a straight away, or downshifting for engine braking, the paddles start to make more sense.

[whataboutbob]

Originally Posted by Atticus808

i thought the car holds the rpms, and won't upshift or downshift unless you press the paddles?l

This is only true in Manual mode. In Auto mode you can use the paddle shifters (but not the stick) to initiate shifts.

[whataboutbob]

Originally Posted by Ocala FR-S

In full manual mode it pretty much does. It will downshift itself when RPMs are ridiculously low and won't allow downshifts if vehicle speed would result in exceeding redline. It also won't allow upshifts if the resulting RPM would be ridiculously low. However, I understand it will not upshift by itself and you just bounce off the upper rev limiter. I'll just have to wait to do that by mistake to find out for myself.

I've tested this in AutoX. It will bounce off the rev limiter, and if you hit the limit too many times it seems to throttle the motor back on you.

[Demandred7]

Originally Posted by Nezz

Sport VSC == Vehicle stability control and throttle response, so it's seperate to "Sport" mode on the transmission. this is one of the few cars left where the transmission isn't controlled by the ECU directly. Two seperate brains! I've driven some older cars the same with a "sport" mode for the traction control and a seperate brain for the engine-- Turning on "Sport" traction control/power delivery and "winter" on the trans confused the shit out of a turbo Volvo.

(So you know, manual cars have the sport VSC and traction control buttons)

Definitely no confusing this transmission between Snow and Sport. If you engage snow, it cancels sport, and vice versa. Although I think that snow moderates the throttle mapping as well as 2nd gear start up as well as intervening sooner with respect to both traction control and stability control. I just tried it on the way home from work.

[dun3]

I had paddle shfters/shifter in my Ralliart, and you'll eventually learn to just use both. I was upshifting with the paddles sometimes when grabbing something with my left hand (always drove it in manual mode and mainly use knob shifter). It's definitely more fun to drive in manual mode. And as for the knob shifter, I woud have thought up shifting would have been cicking it down, and down shifting would be up, like on my Ralliart, but I guess not. Interesting.