GT5 vs Forza 4

[blur]

I like Microsoft. I'm running Windows 8 right now and using a Windows Phone 7.

Livery and Car customization....not a selling point for me cause I think its more ricer than it is cool (painting headlights and now the addition of huge exhaust tips)

*glances at sig* . . . *re-reads quote* . . . *facepalm*

By your standards YOU are the ricer.

Anyway, the artists in the Forza community has been creating thousands of amazing liveries.





The game has only been out for a couple of weeks now and there has been a ton of high quality submissions in the forums already. If this to you is "race inspired cosmetic enhancement", I bet all professional racing teams are ricers too.

[Snaps]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Yet I've played Forza 3, and per our discussion here, Forza 4 is not an evolutionary leap over Forza 3. So, is it or is it not a leap forward. I think where you Forza guys are failing to state your case on it is the defining the differences between Forza 3 and 4. You say it isn't the same, yet it's not a leap forward either. So....what is one to think hum? Answer isn't simply..."just play it". I could laundry list the GT4 to GT5 game changers. So, what say ye on 3 to 4.

It is, and it's not. It is in the way it's a completely new game, with new modes, new cars, new tracks, new physics, and it isn't in the way that's it's still a racing game made by the same people. Make your own decision as to whether or not it's an evolutionary leap over F3. It only takes one rent

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

That's just it, you haven't said anything that I find of interest as being a "surpassing" achievement? What and where does it surpass GT? Because ALL of it's cars have interior view...Nope not a selling point for someone like me. Livery and Car customization....not a selling point for me cause I think its more ricer than it is cool (painting headlights and now the addition of huge exhaust tips). Driving physics is where it needs to be to real someone like me into that game. I have Shift 2 like I said, and it has the livery, car customizing, engine swapping (not to same extent albeit). I'm not one to spend HOURS building my own livery. In Shift 2 I just slap on a pre-made one. I find putting on your own graphics to the extent that some of these guys do to be cool looking sure, but I'm not the type to spend the time to do that. Where I spend my time and think is of value is in car tuning. A custom solid color suffices to me when it comes to customizing the exterior, unless like I said, the livery is already pre-made and I like it. I care about what the Aero looks like and what wheels to go with it, but I'm not going to spend hours arranging a Chic on my hood and strategically placing decals. A few decals with the sponsors I like, is really about as far as I go.

I'm not one to waste (IMO) hours on that stuff too. The only decal I've put on any of my cars in F4 so far (of which my copy arrived today! woo!) has been a decal to make the hood of a 240Z look like Carbon Fibre...

Most of the things that I have mentioned about GT5 don't really matter to me either. The premium GT5 vs. forza debate hardly matters because I play hood veiw anyway. The fact that the physics are better in GT5 doesn't matter because I play video games to have fun, not to try and do the best physics simulation I can if I wanted to do that I'd download some sort of high-end simulation program.

But that doesn't matter, even though those things hardly matter to me, I can still admit they're better on GT5 than Forza, tehy don't have to specifically be important to me for me to be able to do that.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Use to have a Logitech G-Force till the motor went out. Since then it's been the controller. When I did have the wheel though (GT4), it was a completely different world. I would like to see how I do with a wheel now since I have 4yrs worth of real track driving under me. I plan to get a Fanatec wheel in the near future.

I've got the Xbox wireless wheel (I know, it's rather useless ), I can use it on my PC, but most games don't recognise it.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Not even close. I play all sorts of games. I have the same philosophy with watching movies. Film critics or even people who say it sucks, I still will find out for myself. But I will note what the dislikes are.

Fair enough... So, remind me again... Why haven't you tried Forza 4?

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

That's a strictly xBox issue, not Forza. It's just a road block for xBox only games, not that I wouldn't like them.

I work in IT. And 7 of the years in Information/Cyber Security. Everything MS pretty much fails. And the 360 is no exception to that rule (50% failure rate when it was produced, and then a 48% failure rate after you got it fixed). The IT industry is bad about making things JUST good enough to work for sometime. There is more money to be had if stuff breaks every once in a while. And who makes up the majority of the market share for the PC industry...one guess is only allowed...lol. At the same time, MS failing keeps me employed . That applies to other industries and not just IT of course. Medical industry is another example. You get sick with a disease. TRUST ME...there is a cure SOMEWHERE! BUT.....what makes more money, curing you? Or keeping you JUST healthy enough by you taking the overly expensive prescription drugs?

Failure Rate isn't entirely known for the first release of Xbox. (According to Wikipedia - trust at your own judgement) the rate has jumped around from as low as 20% to as high as 54%, varying with different testers, different sources, etc. Microsoft have not officially released any numbers AFAIK. Feel free to correct me on this

I'm an Engineering student, with more than half of my degree related to electronics and computers. I'm always up with techonology and use common sense when someone tells me something new that sounds even a little fishy, so it's not like I'm oblivious to the world of electronics (About to make a PWM circuit for my computer case fans, actually.). I know Microsoft is the leader in the PC industry, but they didn't get there by making bad products. It's usually the users that are the problem. I run Windows 7 on my custom computer (have for over 2 years now) and I've never had a problem with it. Before that I ran Windows Vista on a laptop, also had no problems. I'm on another laptop now, running windows XP (it's about 7 years old, W7 doesn't seem to want to install on it), also with no problems.

I understand about designing something to last a certain amount of time (usually just over warranty peroid), there's no point making a system more reliable than that because then you're just wasting money.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by blur

I like Microsoft. I'm running Windows 8 right now and using a Windows Phone 7.


*glances at sig* . . . *re-reads quote* . . . *facepalm*

By your standards YOU are the ricer.

Anyway, the artists in the Forza community has been creating thousands of amazing liveries.





The game has only been out for a couple of weeks now and there has been a ton of high quality submissions in the forums already. If this to you is "race inspired cosmetic enhancement", I bet all professional racing teams are ricers too.

You obviously did not read what I wrote in its entirety. If you had, then you would realize that these livery graphics is NOT what I deemed to be ricer. Race cars have a totally different taste of livery which I enjoy. I already said that. Its the putting Masta Yoda face or Monica Chu's big boobs all over your hood and roof of your race car that looks like rice to me. I said this already, so I just repeated myself again.

[Dimman]

A) Does Forza's physics finally not suck?

B) Do they still allow impossible mods? (Driveshaft upgrades on FWD cars...)

C) Did they actually do any research this time around to find out that a 1UZFE weighs less than a 2JZGTE, instead of just assuming a V8 weighs more than an L6, disregarding such things as block material?

Because they had some pretty epic failures in past games, I don't have faith in them, even if they do improve...

(Kinda why I still hate on Hyundai...)

[blur]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

You obviously did not read what I wrote in its entirety. If you had, then you would realize that these livery graphics is NOT what I deemed to be ricer.

Yet you categorize the whole system under "more rice than cool". I don't understand why if you LIKE racing liveries, why Forza's amazing livery system is not a selling point to you? You don't have to spend hours designing them, you could simply buy them from their respective authors. You even mentioned that you would apply a few sponsor decals as well . . . so why are you bashing the system? Because GT5 doesn't have it?

Because they had some pretty epic failures in past games, I don't have faith in them, even if they do improve...

To me an epic failure is shipping a game with 80% of it's cars being ported garbage.

[WingsofWar]

so much elitism going on in here.

[blur]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

so much elitism going on in here.

dis is srs bsns

[Neutral_Eyes]

So are you GT5 losers enjoying your DLC?

[n2oinferno]

So I asked some people I know that have both GT5 and Forza 4. They said GT5 probably has a little bit better physics, but Forza 4 was more fun.

I played a bit of GT5 Prologue, but like I said earlier I haven't played the full game so if the entire driving model changed I can't really base my facts on it. It's pretty, but I didn't really think it was a huge leap over 4. If I just want pretty I stick to my PC since consoles don't touch it. But back to GT.. If anything, the only thing that made a huge difference to me was having analog throttle/brake, which I've been using in Forza forever now.

As far as the point earlier about everything MS failing.. Well, I'll call bullshit on that. Actually, I'll clarify. If your IT department wants it to run well, it'll run well. If it's lax, it'll run like ass and crash often. Likewise, if you don't lock down your users so they can't fuck up the system, it'll run like ass and crash even more. I've been on both sides of that coin. When I was contracting for IT we had a rock solid Server 03 infrastructure running most of the manufacturing facility, with 08 being deployed on the automated packaging/belt system, and XP running all of the client computers. And then all your VMs and whatnot, of course. In fact, if anything ever did go down it was likely a SCADA or one of the proprietary software clients because of a PEBKAC error. Microsoft just takes the blame because they're the big player. I've seen software companies blame MS because their product doesn't work on it, because they developed a shitty product and deployed it without testing it thoroughly enough... But that rant is for another thread.
/rant

[Snaps]

Originally Posted by Dimman

A) Does Forza's physics finally not suck?

That's an opinion... Unless you know the physics model behind GT5?

Originally Posted by Dimman

B) Do they still allow impossible mods? (Driveshaft upgrades on FWD cars...)

I think they do still allow driveshaft mods on FWD cars. I always just took it as axle mods instead, it's a bit more realistic

Originally Posted by Dimman

C) Did they actually do any research this time around to find out that a 1UZFE weighs less than a 2JZGTE, instead of just assuming a V8 weighs more than an L6, disregarding such things as block material?

I'm not sure what you're talking about? The 1UZ swapped into a Supra in Forza 3 was lighter than the 2JZ that comes out of it? You're not talking about F2 are you (I think that may have been the case in F2?)?

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Snaps

I'm not one to waste (IMO) hours on that stuff too. The only decal I've put on any of my cars in F4 so far (of which my copy arrived today! woo!) has been a decal to make the hood of a 240Z look like Carbon Fibre...

Wait, What? Decal to "look like carbon fiber"? Please tell me you can add a real carbon hood to your car to increase the performance index due to shedding weight off the vehicle. Adding a vinyl wrap on an otherwise stock hood serves no purpose to the performance of it. Please tell me you can add a real carbon hood, and have the game subtract weight from the car.

Originally Posted by Snaps

Most of the things that I have mentioned about GT5 don't really matter to me either. The premium GT5 vs. forza debate hardly matters because I play hood veiw anyway. The fact that the physics are better in GT5 doesn't matter because I play video games to have fun, not to try and do the best physics simulation I can if I wanted to do that I'd download some sort of high-end simulation program.

I play GT5 for fun to. I like authentic type stuff.

Originally Posted by Snaps

I've got the Xbox wireless wheel (I know, it's rather useless ), I can use it on my PC, but most games don't recognise it.

Yea, not much wheel support for 360.

Originally Posted by Snaps

Fair enough... So, remind me again... Why haven't you tried Forza 4?

Busy and limited access to a 360.

Originally Posted by Snaps

Failure Rate isn't entirely known for the first release of Xbox. (According to Wikipedia - trust at your own judgement) the rate has jumped around from as low as 20% to as high as 54%, varying with different testers, different sources, etc. Microsoft have not officially released any numbers AFAIK. Feel free to correct me on this

I'm an Engineering student, with more than half of my degree related to electronics and computers. I'm always up with techonology and use common sense when someone tells me something new that sounds even a little fishy, so it's not like I'm oblivious to the world of electronics (About to make a PWM circuit for my computer case fans, actually.). I know Microsoft is the leader in the PC industry, but they didn't get there by making bad products. It's usually the users that are the problem. I run Windows 7 on my custom computer (have for over 2 years now) and I've never had a problem with it. Before that I ran Windows Vista on a laptop, also had no problems. I'm on another laptop now, running windows XP (it's about 7 years old, W7 doesn't seem to want to install on it), also with no problems.

The % data I got a long time ago, but not from Wikipedia. And I am speaking on Microsoft from an industry perspective and nearly a decade in the IT industry.

Originally Posted by Snaps

I understand about designing something to last a certain amount of time (usually just over warranty peroid), there's no point making a system more reliable than that because then you're just wasting money.

Same goes for Virus companies such as Symantec and Mcafee. They continue to use the same virus signature system/approach knowing very well that it's a reactive system rather than a proactive one. So, you can still get infected by a trojan, virus, worm, botnet...etc, so they can sell you more products to get rid of said problem, or more subscriptions to the same failed technology. There is better technology that exist, works even against Zero Day type attacks, yet they wouldn't make any money that way. I run such a system on my computers.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by blur

Yet you categorize the whole system under "more rice than cool". I don't understand why if you LIKE racing liveries, why Forza's amazing livery system is not a selling point to you? You don't have to spend hours designing them, you could simply buy them from their respective authors. You even mentioned that you would apply a few sponsor decals as well . . .

I didn't categorize anything. Pretty sure I told you specifically that I like race car livery and not that "oh let me put Monica's ass and tits on my race car" livery. It's fake to me, and not authentic. Don't see it in any racing league I've ever had the pleasure of being apart of, or seeing on the net/TV. That's boy-racer modification is 90% of Forza users are about.

See this:

Kaza 24hr Race GTR (real car)




Not long after that, GT5 got it for a free DLC.




Authentic representation of a real race car is what I enjoy more. Can you do that in Forza, sure...how long do you have to spend to do it though...I don't care to spend that time. Just give me the car like it is in real life cause I'm ready to start driving, not give me a plain GTR to spend time trying to make it look like the real car. Don't care to buy just graphics for a game car. If I buy anything graphics/decals, it would be for my real life race car.

Originally Posted by blur

so why are you bashing the system? Because GT5 doesn't have it?

No, because the majority is this:









and Not this. This is what Race cars should look like, not Pac-Man or some Movie title on it.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

As far as the point earlier about everything MS failing.. Well, I'll call bullshit on that. Actually, I'll clarify. If your IT department wants it to run well, it'll run well. If it's lax, it'll run like ass and crash often.

Yeah your right, my decades of experience just doesn't mean much in terms of coming to this understanding. Linux and OSX crash just as often...../end sarcasm. The abundance of security flaws in their OS is what keeps me employed. Some security flaws you would think would be just common sense not to have happen.

Zune was another MS product that uncharacteristically failed.

[ichitaka05]

^Dragon, I do agree w you on design... but... there is real race car w drawing on it

Hatsune Miku Z4 GT300


Evangelion Toytoa Corolla Super GT


& there's Gundam design Lexus SC430 Super GT and so on... but I think, I've embarrass Japan enough